Tank Builder not far from here.

[bitterman]

Did he tell you that the front and bottom where tempered, because I can see from the photo that the bottom is not tempered glass.

Only the front and Back fo the 60" tanks were tempered are per what he told me.

The 72" tanks do not have tempered glass in them.

Bruce

[PoisonJello]

sorry to here about the damage but there is a reason why companys use thick glass...I think I would consider taking him to court if he won't give you your money back or at very least rebuild the tanks for you with the proper thickness of glass

building a tank isn't that hard, having the right thickness of glass can be expensive but water damage cost a lot more...really glad you didn't fill all the tanks 

[bitterman]

I got this from Ron in my e-mail this morning.  I like his skewed view  (He sias mine is skewed, oo well any way about it he is not doing anything as sais I am theatening him), but hey what can I say but inform other people of his actions. I did ask him what he was going to do after being ignored and told him I was going to inform people of the issue so they don't have the same fate as I I had.  He is blaming the location I set the tanks up on as the issue. That a bloody cop out. After having the problem all the reading and glass thickness recomendations all state the glass was way too thin in fast 9-12mm glass should have been used (Perferable 12mm). I was silkly to listen to him and shoudl have listened to my gut feeling that 1/4" glass was too thin. I guess I am to blame for having MTS and want large tanks.

He is saying I asked explicitly for the tank sizes, I asked if he could 5-6' tanks for aquarium to hold water and fish. On ebay (A now deleted add) he did specify he could make tank sizes for fish in these measurments when someon else asked. I repeatidly questioned him on the strength and he said his tanks are strong (Bracing etc etc.). So as I expected he was ignoring me and not going to do anything. So this is a warning for everyone on OVAS avoid these issues and don't purchase tanks from Ron Caruana!!!!!!!

This is the complete unalterd e-mail he sent me. I am laught so hard at this statment " I guarantee against leakage from the silicone only." After 1 tank exploding, I don't think any of these tanks would last long enough to worry about the silicon garantee, but that my opinion and I'm not a tank builder, just a software tester.

He has noted I can recoup the money I piad for them.. I'm not a crook. In my good consious I can't sell these for aquariums to anyone seeing they  could have the same issue as I did with a blow out and extensive water damage. I take responcibility for my actions and don't pass my problems onto other people. I am trying to sell them for herps as I think they shoudl be strong enought for that, but I'm no expert there.

" I do not think that it is my fault" Well that is arguable... but my opinion is I asked if the aquarims were stonge enough and safe for aquariums. He always had a ton of answers are to they are stong etc etc. Time has shown that these are not strong or safe as aquariums. I think he was either nieve  (as was I) and totally figure they would be fine, or he was planning to rip me off from the start and was wondering when he was going to get a phone call of the explosion and water damage.

Bruce

" Hello Bruce, I have been occupied for a few day in which I have had time to consider the question concerning your aquariums.  First I would like to say, please stop threatening me about going public.  You may do as you wish, I have nothing to hide and I am an honest person.  If you want to tell others your version of what transpired, altering the truth so that you have no responsibility and everything is my fault, then so be it.                                                     

   Let us start from the beginning.  I place an add on e-bay saying that I am a glass cutter and I can make aquariums up to 70 gallon, terrariums up to 220 gallons and glass plant boxes.  You then contact me and ask me if I can make you four aquariums of your chosen dimensions.  I tell you what thickness, type and sizes of glass that I have to work with.  You then tell me the price that you are willing to pay if I build you said tanks, which is below my normal price for sheets of glass, by the way, and you ask me to build them for you.

    I worked for almost two weeks on those tanks for you and I used up all my thickest glass.  You choose what vehicle you would transport them in and where you would set them up.  Before you left I said, if they break I don`t want to know about it.  I guarantee against leakage from the silicone only.

   You where pleased with the tanks when you saw them and you left here.

   You choose where to set one up and to be honest with you, I think that that is why it broke.  You still have the option of selling them for what ever purpose you choose and I am sure that you can recoup your money from the three that are left.

   I kept you informed of everything that I was doing and got your approval before I proceeded.

   You need to take responsibility for your actions and not try to push them off on someone who only did as you asked.  I made those tanks for you with good intent and I did a nice job for a great price.  I am very sorry for what happened, but I do not think that it is my fault.  I am willing to make you a sub filter or something at no charge because I am saddened by what has transpired and I wish to do what I can to help.  My only crime here is building you what you wanted with the glass we agreed upon.

   I wish you all the best ... from Ron"

[speckledmind]

I have been following this thread since the begining, and was worried someone whould have a disaster with these large tanks being built out of 1/4 inch glass.

I'm sorry to hear about your tank breaking bitterman, but even worst is the water damage and costs related to it, I have had first hand experience with this and it's bad, but with all due respect to both parties, the tank builder followed what you asked him to do in size of tanks, while you knew the thickness of glass used ( 1/4 inch ), you have enough experience in aquarium keeping to know this is not a wise choice, just look at what commercial companies use as a reference for building there tanks.

If you refer to the fist and original post on this thread, he does specify in his Ebay auction " Aquariums up to 70 gallons, and guaranteed not to leak for 35 years " he offers no guaranty towards breaking, only leaking.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150138330086#description
" I make Aquariums up to 70 gallons, Terrariums up to 220 gallons, and
many sizes of Glass Plant Boxes.
I can make 10 fifteen gallon Aquariums for Ten dollars each.
All tanks must be picked up.
They are guaranteed not to leak for 35 years ".

I have always been nervous about using anything over a 20 Gal. tank, a 33 Gal. tank ( 36" x 12" x 18" ) with 1/4 inch glass shows considerable bowing on the front and back of the tank ( and it's more than obvious ) I can not even imagine the pressure point it would create on a 70 Gal. tank even if well braced, let alone a 179.5 Gallon tank   ( 72"x24"x24" ), I sold my Hagen 66.5 Gal tank that had 3/8 think glass because it made me nervous with the bowing.

You say " I had the 2 smaller tanks stacked ontop of the bigger tanks ", if you refer to the other two tanks you purchased ( 124.7 Gallons 60"x24"x21" tanks ), I would not consider this a wise move / transportation method in any way, and it may ( or may not ) have created stress points, commercial companies such as AllGlass and Perfecto have special packaging and height / weight limit for shipping tanks.

You also wrote " NExt to ge them drilled   and do a test fill of water. Then Fish time  ", I'm hoping you did not get any of these tanks drilled, because this would be no less than suicide : ( ( having only 1/4 inch glass.

Again, with all due respect to both parties, several people have purchased smaller tanks than you have chose from this Gentleman, and no issues have been reported.

This hobby is a costly one for sure when caught up in the MTS syndrome, but there is a l limit to what one should expect to save $$$ while making compromises on cost / material and the origin of the equipment.

Again, sorry about your mishaps, I don't wish it upon any one.

[bitterman]

If you refer to the fist and original post on this thread, he does specify in his Ebay auction " Aquariums up to 70 gallons, and guaranteed not to leak for 35 years " he offers no guaranty towards breaking, only leaking.

His other older ad (Deleted after I informed him of the issue (As stated above) had reference to 180 gallon tanks and 114 gallon tanks. I repeatidly asked him about the strength of the tanks if they were stong enough and every time he said there would be no problem. He did not do what I asked. I ask for if he could built large tanks that would be strong and expressed concerns of then exploding and he told me I would have no worries. He even said verbally I guarantee you will not have any issues with these tanks. That in itself was very misleading but not proof as it could be consider here-say.

You say " I had the 2 smaller tanks stacked ontop of the bigger tanks ", if you refer to the other two tanks you purchased ( 124.7 Gallons 60"x24"x21" tanks ), I would not consider this a wise move / transportaion method in any way, and it may ( or may not ) have created stress points.

In my talks with Ron I asked him if it would be fine to travel with the tanks like this and he said it would have been no problem (There was Styrofoam and 3/4" plywood in between the tanks.). I even said if he thought it would be an issue I only want 2 tanks, so they travel safely.  He said "They should be fine" and continued to tell me it would be no problem.

You also wrote " NExt to ge them drilled   and do a test fill of water. Then Fish time  ", I'm hoping you did not get any of these tanks drilled, because this would be no less than suicide : ( ( having only 1/4 inch glass.

The tanks were never drilled, they were as he had built them.. No changes. I did not even fill the tank to the top. It was only filled to about 16" worth of water. The place the tank was setup was extreamly flat and solid.  Also 1" styroafoam was used to ensure no stress riser would result in an issue. The tank was almost perfectly level also only about 1/32" out in 5'. Most peoples tanks aren't even close to that level.

Again, with all due respect to both parties, several people have purchased smaller tanks than you have chose from this Gentleman, and no issues have been reported.

I did not say there would be a problem with the smaller tanks. I warned people of this issue and am letting them judge for themselves. And a seller that does not take care of clients might not be the best to deal with.

I have been totally up front with him. He lead me on for almost a week and would not respond. He said he would let me know what if anything he would do for me and to also inform him of the issue such that nobody else suffer the water damage I did. Then he started ignoring correspondences until I told him I was going to inform people on ovas of this issue. Then I got the response everyone has here.

If you ask him about the glass thickness of the tanks he is building and check the link I provided, he is using VERY low safety factors for most of them. Additionally, when I picked up the tanks he mentioned he gets most his glass for free and that people drop it off to him and he recycles the glass. This alone could cause additional issue as the material could have flaws in it that can result in this issue... He did not mention this before I committed to purchase the tanks.

Bruce

[speckledmind]

Additionally, when I picked up the tanks he mentioned he gets most his glass for free and that people drop it off to him and he recycles the glass. This alone could cause additional issue as the material could have flaws in it that can result in this issue... He did not mention this before I committed to purchase the tanks.
Bruce

WoW ! you really got misslead.

If he has in deed changed is original add ( I was misslead when reading and copying it to my post, Sorry ), and you have been greatly messlead from the start in buying these tanks, then taking them home in the fashion he agreed to let you do it in : (

I read somewhere ( not sure if it's this thread or another ) that he did build tanks out of used / recycled glass, they are guaranteed to have flaws and lead to problems, and with large tanks, to disasters no less : (

If he does value his business as a tank building and having future sales ( not mentioning having certain commitments towards what he does ), he should refund you at this point to cover the certain losses ( ie : the tank, flood ).

Sorry about reading all of this Bruce.

Where you able to clean up most of the mess with out having to rip out walls and carlet ?

[bitterman]

WoW ! you really got misslead.

If he has in deed changed is original add ( I was misslead when reading and copying it to my post, Sorry ), and you have been greatly messlead from the start in buying these tanks, then taking them home in the fashion he agreed to let you do it in : (

If he does value his business as a tank building and having future sales ( not mentioning having certain commitments towards what he does ), he should refund you at this point to cover the certain losses ( ie : the tank, flood ).

Sorry about reading all of this Bruce.

Where you able to clean up most of the mess with out having to rip out walls and carlet ?

I am goign to have to tear alot of druwall from my basment walls and replace at least the bottom 4'. Additionally posibly once I remove it replace the insultation as well. The carpet will most likely be garbage, just waiting till it totally dried before I clean it. It will most likely have to be removed and the underpad replaced.

I was not even expecting him to do aything. I was hoping for my money back, but figured things woudl go this way. This happend last Wednessday, and I waited after talking to hij on the phone Wednesday night. After that the only responce to things were I have  abunch of small tanks if you need for the fish....... My responce was that woudl not do any good as Fronts need a 5'-6' tank hence my request to see if you could build tanks that would work.

I noticed the old add was deleted the next day after I talk to him.. Might have been gone before, but I was not looking for it  http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=18315.msg138054#msg138054 has a copy and past for the questions in the ad that shows the question buy another person and the answer he provided.

I was mislead and blinded by the quest for a huge frontosa wall I guess. I shoudl have listend to my gut feeling.... The deal was too good to be true for sure.

Bruce

[artw]

I was over at Bruce's last night, and there was water damage/musty smell/glass pieces everywhere. I took a really close look at the remaining 2 tanks and I could not believe my eyes.  Now I have looked at a lot of tanks in my career as a hobbyist, and I find it hard to believe these tanks are even able to hold themselves together, let alone water inside them.   It is true,  and unfortunate that a good man (Bruce) was misinformed and had to pay the price.

[darkdep]

Bruce, I'm so incredibly sorry this happened to you. 

You haven't mentioned, but did you have any fish in the tank when it blew?  Were you home when it happened?

Glad to say that the link you referenced was the one I used to calculate the thickness of the new tank I'm building (will be using 12mm glass). 

Although this is a terrible thing for you to have gone through, this event should serve as a valuable reference for anyone contemplating building a tank or buying a "homemade" tank.

[bitterman]

Bruce, I'm so incredibly sorry this happened to you. 

You haven't mentioned, but did you have any fish in the tank when it blew?  Were you home when it happened?

Glad to say that the link you referenced was the one I used to calculate the thickness of the new tank I'm building (will be using 12mm glass). 

Although this is a terrible thing for you to have gone through, this event should serve as a valuable reference for anyone contemplating building a tank or buying a "homemade" tank.

I had the 10 Burundi frontosa I purchased back from you (APW) in the tank   Things were touch and go but they made it thanks to my wife catching them (Put in a 5 gallon pail of water ) after the tank blew out and called me to come home from work. I then put them in the 195 till I can get another larger tank and get it up and running. The lights are off the tank because 17 Frontosa in a 195 are NOT recommended and aggression is an issue when the lights are on.

Bruce

[speckledmind]

What a costly missadventure.

There is only one thing I can add at this point.
Take lots pictures of the mess and for future reference, of what will be ripped out of the walls / floors and thrown to the garbage, if this ever leads to some sort of court battle, you will need it.

When you start talking about taking part of walls down, insulation and carlet, your also talking mold potential, cleaning, disinfecting and rebuilding, that cost a lot of $$$ not good : (

Any one out there have a printed copy of the original add that was posted on Ebay ?
Some times I print stuff out for reference, maybe some one has it.
The details on the add could be of great help if this lands in court, or leads to some sort of future settlement.

[Alchemist]

Sorry for your problems here but I too was of the opinion that the original ad only had 70g tanks in it which is why I (and Shrimpy) was asking earlier in this thread about the larger tanks.

[jimskoi]

Im really sorry to have read about your tank.Im also sorry i never saw this thread earlier.I was in contact with this guy about 2 months ago.After talking to him and having him send me pictures.I relized that these would not be what us fish guys were really looking for.I was going to pick up all of his 55 and 25 gals.But, changed my mind.Im glad I did but I wish i saw this thread ealier.
The glass is way too thin.Even the 55,s i dont think i would trust the thickness either.


Sorry guys.

[bitterman]

Sorry for your problems here but I too was of the opinion that the original ad only had 70g tanks in it which is why I (and Shrimpy) was asking earlier in this thread about the larger tanks.

You will notice that post had cut and pastes from his old deleted ebay add http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=18315.msg138054#msg138054

Other people had asked if he did bigger tanks. It in the Q: (Potental customer question)  A: (Rons answer)

When I went on ebay to find the ad to ge thte number that is what I saw. His ad's no longer have any mention of larger tanks. Probably since I informed him of the issues.

jimskoi was a smarter man then I LOL (Gota laugh or I would cry) but live and learn.

Bruce

[KLKelly]

I'm sorry this happened to.  What are you going to do with the remaining tanks?  Would they be good for reptiles <<shiver>>?  I hope you can recoup some of your costs.  I heard you it happened but didn't see this post.  You've probably saved a few people from the same pain.

[jimskoi]

They would be fine for reptiles.You could probally even put a couple inches of water in and have no problems.
I just know that it would always be in the back of my mind."Glass thick enough?"

I just built a couple of tanks out of 1/4" glass and it took me a week before i stopped thinking about if they would hold or not.I knew they would but hey,it only takes glass made on a monday.Lol.
they tanks were corals tanks that I built  48x16x12" high.

[bitterman]

I'm sorry this happened to.  What are you going to do with the remaining tanks?  Would they be good for reptiles <<shiver>>?  I hope you can recoup some of your costs.  I heard you it happened but didn't see this post.  You've probably saved a few people from the same pain.

There is 1 left. One is sold pending pickup. Decided not to sell the 60x24x21 one with tempored glass (clone of the broken one). Selling for herps use and linked to this thread so people would see what can happen if they decide to fill them with water. Trying to ensure other people do not have The issue I had occur. No sense in crying over stilt milk and $ losses, just have to move on and deal with things. I am selling them at a loss, but need to get them out of might sight as they are a reminder of the horrible flood.

http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=20356.msg145223#msg145223

Bruce