Need Help: Illness Diagnosis

[darkdep]

Hi folks,

One of my favourite fish, a male 10" Protomelas Spilonotus (Malawi Cichlid), is sick.

I've been away so can't say for sure when symptoms began.  I didn't notice last night because the Spilonotus usually hang out near the surface...tonight he is not eating, has a swollen belly, and seems to be floating at the surface.  He's upright, but needs to expend effort to go down in the water.  The tank he's in has some overly aggressive fish but they're small compared to him (Tank has a 5" Cobalt Blue Zebra and a couple 2-3" Auratus).  I don't see them going after him so although he may get in the way of a scuffle or two I don't believe it's a factor.

He's had nothing to eat for the last couple weeks except NLS.

I've not had to deal with this particular ailment before.  Ideas for treatment?  I can't lose this guy

[Crumpet]

I'm wondering if this is bloat -- the swollen tummy, having difficulty maintaining an even keel.  How is his excrement?  Is it zig-zaggy or long and thin?

Just with my experience with goldies, (I know totally different fish!), but when I've experienced what you're describing I fed them lightly blanched peas with skin removed, with some epsom salt inserted.

Not sure if this will help at all, but thought I would throw that out there.
Hope he feels better soon

[darkdep]

Based on reading, it sounds like bloat.  I'm actually more surprised I haven't encountered it before; it's a very common ailment for Africans.

I threw together a 10gal hospital tank with lots of epsom salt and coarse salt, and raised up the temp a few degrees.  I moved him there for the night until I can get some meds.  He's sort of floating all over the place.  He's SOOO big in that tank, but I'm sure he'll be better off with no sources of stress.

Looks like Metronidazole or Clout are used to treat this.  I'm hoping Big Als or SuperPetSmart has some.  I'll try to send my wife out to grab it tomorrow while I'm at work, if he makes it through the night.

[KLKelly]

I couldn't find metronidazole in a pure form anywhere locally when I needed it.

I placed an order for medicated food with it - metromed and a small amount of pure seachem metro.  (I think it was mops.ca.  If cichlids are succeptible to this it might be a good idea to order some just in case)

I found a product called Metro+ but it doesn't say how much metro is in it.  I emailed the manufacturer and they said it was proprietary. I doubt its much.  You put so much of this stuff in compared to dosing with pure metro. If you have a good relationship with a vet you might get it out of them.  I think it goes by the name Flagyl.

If you cant find anything I have maybe two ten gallon doses of seachem metro left.  I live in Rockland though so I think this would be a long trip.

[darkdep]

Thanks for the offer.  I'm going to do the rounds in Kanata tonight, but will definitely order some from somewhere for the future.  Rockland is a bit far for me

This morning he's still bopping around the hospital tank, and at least doesn't appear any worse.  I'm trying to convince my wife to go to BA before I get home from work but she's afraid she'll get the wrong thing

[Ellypho]

Seems like dropsy. Usually you can throw some salt in the water and bring up the heat.

[dan2x38]

Hey DarkDep just brainstorming... since you were away is it possible he got hurt being trapped by a rock or decoration, then thrashing around to free it's self? that could brusie his swim bladder...

[darkdep]

I don't think so with this guy.  He's not in any way a clumbsy fish. 

Update:  Went to BA Kanata after work, they were out of both Clout and Metro...however there WAS Metro at BA Innes, and they told me they'd have it sent over for pickup tomorrow.  In the meantime I picked up some Jungle Labs food pellets with Metro in them.  I put some in his hospital tank but he isn't eating...I left him alone for a while and hope he'll pick some up (I'll have to do a water change later I think).

Noticed what may be feces in the tank; white and stringy.  Maybe the epsom salt is helping.

He doesn't appear to be any worse...if anything, he's NOT floating as much.  He's actively swimming down near the bottom.

[dan2x38]

I've crushed food up to almost dust... added to water it floats for awhile then starts to sink kind of suspended...

[RoxyDog]

awww..APW, I'm sorry, he seemed fine the whole time I fish-sat.     he always fought for food and ate, but then again he was always at the top so maybe I just didn't notice?    with good advice from squeeker, I saved a goldie from dropsy with elevated temps and salt, maybe medicated food too, but I think she didn't really eat.  I have a large rubbermaid to put him in if you need it.

[darkdep]

Don't worry Roxy, it had nothing to do with you   That tank has some high aggression and the two weeks without a water change probably did it.  He'll be ok, I hope

[squeeker]

White and stringy poop sounds like an internal bacterial infection to me.  While it doesn't sound like dropsy yet, it could certainly progress to that.  I'd definitely recommend feeding a metro-based food.  It's easy to make.

Good luck!

[bitterman]

I would add an extra dose of Epson salts to the tank. This will help clean the fish out quicker. Also don't feed the tank for a bit. Medicate too if needed.

Bruce

[darkdep]

He's alone now in a 10gal hospital.  Water has been loaded with lots of salt and epsom salt.  He's not eating the Metro-based food I bought last night (although if he gets back to eating I'll get him to eat this for a while; he's not a picky eater

So far he doesn't appear to be getting worse, which is good.  Hopefully the "natural" methods are helping.  Also doing 50% daily water changes in the hospital tank.

[bitterman]

I hope the best for this one. Poor fish   Some people will even double dose the epson salts after a couple days with little improvement. Good news that its not getting worst.

[Crumpet]

Just an idea to entice him to eat the medicated food --  I've found that garlic will entice sick or picky eaters.  I take the peel off a section, put it through my squisher and coat the food with it.  Failing that, I've also taken a syringe, minus the needle, and force-fed mushed up food before -- usually peas mixed with epsom salt and garlic, but I'm sure you can do something with the metro, too.

[darkdep]

Medication hasn't made it over from Innes road yet.  On a lark, I called a vet (Kanata Animal Hospital), and after the shock of my asking for medication for a fish, they happily gave me a prescription for pure metronidazole.  Cool!  So he has his first dose, let's see how it goes. 

[KLKelly]

You lucked in - good news!!!!!  Sounds like an awesome vet.

[KLKelly]

You might want to look up treatment advice using pure metro.  I did a round last year and the forum that walked me through it recommended 50% water changes each day during the 7 day (If I recall correctly) treatment.  Here is the dosing schedule I used (not on a cichlid):
Flagyl (Metronidazole): Metronidazole is a bactericidal antibiotic effective against anaerobic bacteria and certain protozoan parasites including Hexamita. It also reduces inflammation in the GI tract. Seachem makes a powdered form of Metronidazole that can be dosed in the water and can be fed in a medicated gel food.
    * Can be combined with many other antibiotics.
    * If used in the water (bath) use 250 mg per 10gallons of water daily for 5 days.
    * Perform 50% water change before each new dose.
    * Remove carbon prior to dosing.

[darkdep]

Yep, they didn't want to give it to me without seeing my pet...until I told them it was for a fish.  I don't think they even knew you could use it for fish   I looked up dosages and they did as well, and our dosages agreed so all was well.  It's more expensive this way, but great news in an emergency (and it's pure).  For anyone in Kanata, take note incase you need some in an emergency.

What I'm doing is crushing up each 250mg tablet (perfect size!) and adding it to the 10gal tank as a powder.  I think I will do a tablet per day for 5 days and review to see if he's eating; if he is I'll switch to a dosed food.  I'll be doing the water changes for sure, as I'm concerned about ammonia (no established filter).