Best treatment for bacterial infections

[Fishnut]

What's better:

1. Melafix

2. EM Tablets (Eurethromicyn)

3. Tetracycline

The fish in question is a koi, but I thought it would be an interesting subject for this forum too.  The fish is skinny, as if it hasn't eaten food in months, it has a few red veins in it's fins, is clamping its dorsal fin and has sunken eyes.  It ate 3 days ago, but spits outt he food it's given and doesn't go after it with any excitement.

[darkdep]

I think it depends on the type of bacteria (I'm not even close to an expert on this topic tho).

I've used Erythromicin in the past to good success, but it was recommended to me based on the symptoms.

[KLKelly]

I'll post over on thegab.org.  They are a sistersite to koivet.

We'll find what hits the broadest range of bacteria.

It could be parasites (or a secondary infection as a result of parasites).

Baytril injections would probably be the best route.

[Fishnut]

I used baytril on birds before.  I never thought it would be good for koi.

[KLKelly]

I saved an oranda last year with baytril injections but it was a one time thing from my vet. Her gills were eroding away.  (I tried a number of things and nothing worked).  Most vets will only prescribe meds when they have an animal there.  If you go to the vet with knowledge on the issue and show that you've researched it well, with the dosing schedule (recommended by a US aquatic vet) you may get the baytril meds.  It has to be the liquid baytril though.  If you do want to try I'll post the baytril dosing recommendations based on weight of the fish.

I know some people will think getting baytril from a vet is extreme... i know my first post on ovas was about finding an aquatic vet in ottawa - i think it gave some people a good laugh.  I think of my fish as pets and its my responsibility to take good care of them - just like my cat and dog.  People in the states have access to aquatic vets.

Here's the responses so far and a link to the thread I started: http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=109190#109190

I'd move the koi to a cycled QT tank and increase salt to .3% over 36 hours.
If baytril isn't available
I'd use kanamycin as a bath treatment, then add kanamycin gel food to the mix if he starts eating.
Second choice would be maracyn plus administered as a bath.
third choice would be maracyn 1 (erythromycin) and maracyn 2 (minocycline).
Is his water happy?
And take a look at the gills

Are they dark red or pale?

I've ordered kanaplex from mops.ca.

[The Pond Boy]

Here is some info about Baytril

Baytril: (Enrofloxacin) Injectible from Bayer Labs, is a 2.27% solution. Give @ 0.1 cc per 6 inches of fish, daily for three injections, then EOD for 2 more injections. Total injections, a maximum of 5.

Recommended dose, (I. ictaluri) is 14mg per kg.

Give the drug Intraperitoneally, with a 25 G needle on a tuberculin syringe.

Fish Length in inches Volume Baytril in ml.
6 inch 0.1 ml
10 inch 0.3 ml
14 inch 0.6 ml
18 inch 0.9 ml
22 inch 1.0 ml
26 inch 1.25 - 1.50 ml
30 inch 1.75 ml
34 inch 2.0 ml

Be careful injecting gravid (egg laden) females. The antibiotics will simply go into the egg mass and will not get diffusion throughout the body where needed! Better in those to inject IM (Intra Muscularly)
Thanks,

The Pond Boy

Greg

[Fishnut]

This is such great information guys!  All I have to do is find the meds!  I'll finish the Furan 2 treatment first (only one more day on it anyways) then proceed to my next choice.  I picked up some E M Tabs at BA today, but I might gove these other meds a try.

The koi is looking slightly better today.  It is swimming around a bit more and the dorsal fin isn't clamped all the time.  I tried feeding it some peas.  It sucked o them for a second and spat them out.  It seems to have an interest in eating, but spits out everything I give it.  ARG!!  Stupid fish!!

It pooped as well.  It was solid and dark brown, so I guess that's a good thing .  Disgusting but necessary   

KLKelly, I think I'll sign up for that goldfish board.  I'm a "her" not a "him" though

[KLKelly]

Dang - I'll fix my post.

I'm not familiar with the furan - I'll have to look it up.

Glad he's feeling a bit better.  I hate it when my goldfish are unwell and start spitting food.  I always feel better when they are eating.  At least the fish is trying.

I hope your fish pulls through.

I've been looking up koi and ponds recently and would love to set one up.

[The Pond Boy]

The only way to get Baytril is through a vet. As far as I know, most vets don't have big problems to sell it as long as you know what you are doing.
Thanks,

The Pond Boy

Greg

[Fishnut]

Furan 2 is a combination med, which is why I like it.  The package says it is effective against gram positive and gram negative bacterial dieases.  It lists Furunculosis (Aeromonas), dropsy, gill disease, fin and tail rot, black molly disease, hemorrhagic septicemia, body slime and eye cloud and cotton mouth diease. 

It contains Nitrofurazone, Furazolidone and Methylene Blue Triydrate.  From what I know the first 2 ingredients are antibiotics and the third is great for removing parasites.  My ich medicine contains Methylene Blue.

So far my koi seems to be responding to something I'm doing.  Now that I read the package again and compared it to other meds I might just go for another round of it.  It might just be working and you know what they say...if it isn't broken, don't fix it.

I tried one more food on my koi tonight...Hikari frozen bloodworms.  IT ATE THEM!!!!!!

I'll do one more water change and the second last treatment tonight.  I hope things continue to improve.

[KLKelly]

I hope so too  Thanks for the info.

PS. thegab forum is down while they switch servers...

[sas]

That's great news Fishnut....things look like they are turning around for your Koi! You might also try garlic in his food to intice him to eat ie) soak the food in garlic juice? I've heard that done at times when fish are finicky. hth Sue

[Fishnut]

I have been e-mailing with the people running The Pond Clinic.  I was told to stop the Furan 2 right away because it is a very potant medicine.  It's as potent to a fish as kemo is to a human and only to be used in extreme circumstances. 

They offer a service where they scrape the gills of the fish and look at the scrapings under a microscope.  It's free!!

They say I should only do a 20% water change every night and keep up the salt dosage.  There's apparently a salt that they sell that contains substance that increases slime coat productivity.

Wow...there's so much to learn when it comes to sick fish!

[sas]

I have been e-mailing with the people running The Pond Clinic.  I was told to stop the Furan 2 right away because it is a very potant medicine.  It's as potent to a fish as kemo is to a human and only to be used in extreme circumstances. 

Ok I wondered about using the Furan, it was taken off the market for use in animals that we humans eat........I know your not eating your Koi but just goes to show you there are some big issues with it.

[Fishnut]

It seems I am on the final leg of this battle.  I got some medicated koi food from the Pond Clinic this afternoon.  I got home and tried feeding it to my koi and it went after the food like a kid goes after candy!!  The eyes look like they're popping back out and it's MUCH more active tonight, plus all its fins are perked up.  Something I did worked!  I will add some activated charcoal to get rid of the Furan 2, then just continue with the salt and smaller water changes.

Phew!

The food is called Medi-koi and it is intended for bacterial and fungal dieases.  The website on the package is www.aquameds.com .  It was an expensive bag of food!  $41.98, (it's 25% off now) but if it helps my koi, then it was worth every penny!  I'll be using that for 10 days, then I can apparently store it in a cool dry place so it will be good for the next time I have a problem with a koi.

[KLKelly]

Awesome!!!!! I would feed for three weeks if you can.  I'm really glad to hear that he's eating - that is always a good sign!
I didn't realize it was available locally.