More brackish nonsense

[fishycanuck]

OK, so I went out and bought 3 mollies for my 10G tank. They share the space with 3 neon tetras and 3 zebra danios. There may or may not be a cherry shrimp or two in the java moss.
I went to BAs yesterday to buy a scat fish, but they were all out  Should have bought it when I saw it... so the question is, given all the stick I took over salinity, do I have to add salt to the water for a scat? If so, how much and over what period of time? I have read a lot of conflicting information about this. Will any of the current occupants need to be moved out?

[RoxyDog]

I'm not expert, but AFAIK scats need brackish conditions and they get way too big for a 10 gal.    

[beowulf]

I'm not expert, but AFAIK scats need brackish conditions and they get way too big for a 10 gal.   

I believe you are correct Madame Roxy.

[Zoe]

Yup... scatters can hit 1 foot long in aquarium...

[sas]

Scatophagus.........gotta love the name! Very descriptive. Rabbits of the fish world?
       Neat looking fish but do require the bigger tanks and salt when they get older.

[Mettle]

OK, so I went out and bought 3 mollies for my 10G tank. They share the space with 3 neon tetras and 3 zebra danios. There may or may not be a cherry shrimp or two in the java moss.
I went to BAs yesterday to buy a scat fish, but they were all out  Should have bought it when I saw it... so the question is, given all the stick I took over salinity, do I have to add salt to the water for a scat? If so, how much and over what period of time? I have read a lot of conflicting information about this. Will any of the current occupants need to be moved out?

Are you sure it's salt? I've never read that. Always been brackish.

I once saw an awesome display tank with scats in it and the person had modified another bottomless tank with branches and such to sit on top of it for crickets to climb in so the scats could hunt. Wish I could find the pics.

And that 10 gal is already getting a bit crowded with 3 mollies, 3 danios and 3 neons, let alone a fish that will grow to nearly a foot long...

Maybe I'm missing something because I didn't read your previous posts on the topic but did you plan on making the 10 gal brackish? The neons really wouldn't have liked that, that's for sure. The danios neither.

[kennyman]

If you are going to develop and interest in brackish tanks you need to realize that there is a wide range of target salinity. This is due to estuaries having different zones. These zones are categorized by their salinity into the following three groups.

The Polyhaline Zone:
Closely resembles a marine environment and is frequented by many marine species.

The Mesohaline Zone:
Represents a much more even mix of Saltwater and Freshwater.

The Oligohaline Zone:
Has a very low salinity and will be acceptable to some vascular plants.

I came across this info in some Marine Biology texts I have laying around and it really helped me to understand why there were always conflicting opinions on the subject.  Some fish progress through these zones as part of their life cycle such as the Amano shrimp, Salmon, Orange chromide, Archer fish and Some Puffers. Young can be released into the ocean to grow and then return upstream to mature while others do the reverse. Other fish are more Eurohaline and can just adapt to two or three of these zones and move between them in the course of a single day. Bullshark anyone 

Brackish tanks are fun because you can keep some really different stuff but you need to put some effort into learning about what what kind of ecosystem you want to set up and the kinds of fish that would be happiest in it. My little 20 gal is a really simple Oligohaline type and you can check it out by clicking the link in my signature. The salinity and equipment is all listed in the main page of my ovas gallery. There are other much bigger systems with cooler fish kept by some ovaser's and hopefully they can show you what some different setups look like 

[fishycanuck]

Well, I had been given conflicting information about whether or not mollies needed a brackish environment... so decided to keep the water "fresh" and add them in with the current residents. When I started reading about scats, I certainly didn't read that they could get that big! Whoo! I guess I went straight to the water parameters and got muddled. Different sites had different suggestions for salinity of the water (I never said they were salt water fish, Stefan). That got me wondering, hence the post. I figured that with any amount of salt I would have to move out the neons and danios who were really only there by default... but I digress.

I feel a bit like when I started out in the hobby, found lots of information in books and online, killed lots of fish in the process until I found some good online clubs like this one. I think I will leave things as they are for now, but would appreciate invitations to see other members' brackish setups, or at least a photo with a census and some advice.

There, for once you guys get to tell me what to do and where to go.

[Mettle]

(I never said they were salt water fish, Stefan).

No, but sas did. My mistake for quoting/replying improperly I guess.

[babblefish1960]

There, for once you guys get to tell me what to do and where to go.

Oh my, what an opportunity, I wish I had something to offer up as a direction insofar as your reasonable and clear questions regarding brackish water is concerned, not that I haven't anything to say on the subject of course, just too busy being distracted with the open ended offer of a lifetime!

[fishycanuck]

Let me clarify - Babble is not to give any opinion on this thread. 

[babblefish1960]

I would well suggest then, given your indecisive quality married with your lack of saline experience other than eye drops, that you consider wading carefully into the Oligohaline Zone to start, and try to keep some poor mollie somewhere alive for a while before you head for deeper water.  So there fishydear!   Just my opinion of course.

[kennyman]

Well, I had been given conflicting information about whether or not mollies needed a brackish environment... so decided to keep the water "fresh" and add them in with the current residents. When I started reading about scats, I certainly didn't read that they could get that big! Whoo! I guess I went straight to the water parameters and got muddled. Different sites had different suggestions for salinity of the water (I never said they were salt water fish, Stefan). That got me wondering, hence the post. I figured that with any amount of salt I would have to move out the neons and danios who were really only there by default... but I digress.


There, for once you guys get to tell me what to do and where to go.

I think most website type resources on this subject are weak. They tend to just regurgitate the urban myth type information and few actually look at brackish systems in their entirety. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ is pretty good for a general overview but the site can be confusing as it is basically the collection and discussion of info for the writing of a comprehensive aquarium book. THIS is another site I found to be very interesting and informative.

As you look for info about how to care for fish I hope you find out more about these cool ecosystems and have fun doing it. For me that is what the hobby is mostly about 

[FishPassion]

Good for you Fishycanuck for entering the brackish/saltwater environment,which is still salt in my books as opposed to FW however one may interpret it.
I do not have any experience with brackish fish but have always had an interest in them and from what I have read on them so far would do exactly what you are doing start them with your fw in a small tank. As they grow and mature and "need" the sw environment then move to a larger environment along with the mollies which will also adapt to salt and keep the danios and tetras in fw tank or move them with into one of your other fw aquariums. As for size there are many varieties of scats growing to different sizes so I wont jump down your throat and tell you your tank is to small as has happened to me as well in the past, every situation is different as we all know and we strive to keep our fish in suitable environments. Your fw experience in the past years I'm sure will lead to a quality brackish environment for your scats (very nice choice of fish BTW) , so good luck into your new venture Fishy.

[fishycanuck]

OK - Babble is officially off my Christmas card list.
-Mettle can stay on, but only gets a small card. No sticker.
-FishPassion gets a bite of my cookie
-Kennyman, you sent me to a website called "Guide to the Mangroves of Singapore" 

The rest of you sensible people have my respect and admiration. Time for more reading, and some brackish potato chips.

[artw]

[Mettle]

-Mettle can stay on, but only gets a small card. No sticker.

I'll take what I can get. 

On a side note - be sure to keep us updated with what you're doing. I've always wanted to try a brackish tank but must admit that I've never been quite brave enough to venture out into it. Best of luck to you!

[kennyman]

-Kennyman, you sent me to a website called "Guide to the Mangroves of Singapore" 

yes I did  

It is the native habitat of many of the fish we are talking about and those fish are listed on that site. http://mangrove.nus.edu.sg/guidebooks/text/fauna.htm  . Also you will find snails, crabs insects, plants and other cool things that live there. Since not many of us run chillers on our tanks we are limited to tropical-subtropical fish and with respect to brackish fish that is most often mangrove habitat.