Why so Many Fish Die-Offs?

[dan2x38]

Maybe it is just me but there have been a rash of large fish die offs. Is it just me or is this so? If it so maybe some fish experienced folks here could muster up some sort of check list, guideline, or whatever to help with this syndrome.

My 2 cents is using Prime, maturing water in bins, and aerating it. I keep a log & test every now and then. Variety food frozen and quality flake. Add veggie clips often. Once a week no one gets feed.

I have no doubt there are an exponential number of tips for care, feeding, treatment, & maintenance that can be posted. I hope a lot will chime in with their years of expertise... 

[mseguin]

There's something up with Ottawa water during the summer. I maintain its a combination of extra chlorine/chloraime, which ahs been confirmed by city staff, and problems with dissolved gasses. My advice, use lots of extra conditioner when water changing, and at the first sign of distress, or even right away to be safe, get an air pump in there. I've had good results rescuing fish that looked distressed from water changes (not my own fish, but ones at work).

[beowulf]

Indeed Matt I have also had success with adding an air pump to distressed fish.  I have been aging my water of later out of fear and so far things are all good.

[dan2x38]

Another large fish tragey posted...      I have not communicated with so many aquarist before is this many sad stories common?

[succinctfish]

Over the last couple of years,usually between Spring and Summer, there have been reports of a lot of deaths in tanks.  When you remove the obvious killers, like water parameter issues, there still are a worrisome number. It's often inexplicable, and can hit one tank and not others at the same residence. I went through this myself last year, in one tank all the corydoras died, and in others they were completely unaffected, no new fish added, no changes.  It's heartbreaking.
Now, here is a thought I have had, I don't know a great deal about the treatment of water in the city, but is it possible that there is a fish virus or pathogen in the water that is not caught by the treatment system because it doesn't impact on humans, and combined with other factors, such as stress, vulnerable fish, is a factor which causes these deaths.  Just look at the viral hemorrhagic septicemia (VHS) virus which has been discovered in several fish species from Lake Ontario and the St. Lawrence River. What if something akin to that is lurking in our river systems?

[KLKelly]

Interesting about the virus idea.  My being on a well - that may be something to consider regarding my ongoing issues.

However - would the virus not remain in the tank - and if you add more fish wouldn't it kill them off too.  Or would a virus die quickly and reinfection is a non issue?

[mseguin]

Yeah the fact that it happens so fast after water cahnges and then seems to dsiappear makes it seem like a pathogen is unlikely to me.

[MikeM]

Just to the add to the... uhm.. body count    I found an oto cat dead at the bottom tonight.  I hadn't been able to see all 5 since Friday, but that's not really unusual, they're always hanging out behind something.  So I'm not exactly sure when he died.  I had done a 15-20% water change on Saturday though, and levels are "good", by which I mean 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, nitrate < 5, pH 7.6 (the usual), KH/GH 5/5 (also the usual, it's drifting up very very slowly).  The dead fish looked completely fine, no bloating or fight marks, or unusual spots.  Just the usual oto cat belly.  The other 4 are acting completely normal hanging on the thermometer.  I know they're sensitive fish, but the only new additions were the swordtails almost two weeks ago, who had been in quarantine for a month prior and showed no problems whatsoever.

I've read oto cats sometimes appear to die for no reason, but that's usually right after they're introduced.  I've had these guys a couple of months or so, and they've all grown considerably.  All these mystery deaths, and always around this time of year.....

[jgolden]

Well, add me to this count... For no obvious reason, the 150 crashed over the weekend. Saturday AM, all was well - water was clear, fish were healthy. Filter media was changed ~ 30 hrs earlier, along with a 40% water change at the same time. Was gone overnight Saturday. Came home Sunday to find an extremely dead tank - only 8 survivors of almost 90 fish. Filters hadn't failed; they were still working. Air circulation wasn't interrupted - 2 battery backup pumps, with fresh batteries, just in case there was a power fluctuation.... The only anomaly  can see at present is the 4 strips of zucchini I pulled from my garden and fed them before I left (no herbicides, pesticides, etc; and they've eaten the home-grown zucchini several times this year already).

[PrincessFish]

JGolden, I'm so sorry to hear your news!!  And so sorry about the others who've had deaths as well.  As a new hobbiest I must say that this is all very disconcerting!  I have been watching my tank and fish very closely because of the news and also because my fish have been acting strangely also (unless it is just my paranoia - can only hope so ;o).  I did loose an SAE a month ago but I think it was my fault as I forgot to add the declorinaminator (sp??) until I'd already filled up the tank (usually I add it prior).
Sending positive thoughts and energy to all!

[KLKelly]

Jgolden - you changed the filter media - as in replaced it with brand new uncycled filter media?  Any old media left in the filter?  That may have been a precursor to your tank crash - on top of maybe increased ammonia in tap water maybe (my mom's has jumped to .50 out of the tap and she lives in Gloucester).  Sorry to hear about it!!!!

[dan2x38]

Jgolden as KLKelly says what did ya do with all your filter media. Did ya rinse the sponge filter in tank water. If replacing your bio filter media only do 1/2 at a time and only when the old stuff is clogged and breaking apart. Have you done any water tests?

Very sorry to hear about the losses...

[jgolden]

Thanks to all.

Yeah, wrt filter media, the tank has 2 XP3's. The media in 1 was changed 4 weeks ago; the other just before this crash. And in both cases, it wasn't the complete media - only the floss in the latter, and the micro-sponges in the former. WRT water tests, Gh and Kh have been within the range I've been keeping them for the last 2 years. Ammonia count seemed normal (unless the test kit is getting too old - is that possible? It's 1 yr old). Nitrates and Nitrites also seemed ok. Ph was at 7.4 (It's been as high as 7.6 and as low as 7.1 in the past). I know it wasn't a disease brought in by a new addition - the last new addition was approx 6 weeks ago. (One would hope that if it was harboring a disease, ti would have manifested much earlier, especially after the new arrival spends 4 days in quarrantine before being placed into the community).

They are doing a lot of construction around here, so maybe they did interfere with the water main... that's about the only thing I can think of...

Ah well... Keeping it optimistic, it's a good opportunity to re-org / change the tank setup... Looking at it from a callous perspective (or however one has to in order to accept a crash like this a little better), I was only 8 fish away from accelerating my conversion to saltwater...

[squeeker]

Add me to the death toll, too...

As I just posted in another thread, water changes have been killing my fish.  I do what I've been doing for years, matching temp, parameters, etc. and using dechlor (extra, too... I treated with 200g worth on my 150g pond), and BAM!  A betta and all the goldies in my pond dropped off within 2 hours of performing a water change.  I can only assume it was excess chlorine/chloramine in the city water... but now I'm afraid to do a water change on the tank for fear of losing the rest of them 

[DavidJohnson]

Earlier this summer I had several fish die after water changes.  At the time I was using Big Al's water conditioner but I read that when chloramines get neutralized they release ammonia.  So, I switched to using Prime and haven't had a problem since.  Maybe it is coincidence but I believe that my deaths were due to the ammonia released from the neutralized chloramines.  Prime also detoxifies ammonia as well as chloramines and thus no problems.  Has anyone who uses prime, or another water conditioner that detoxifies ammonia as well, experienced these significant die offs this summer?

[mseguin]

I've been using BA conditioner for a while, and no issues yet. I make sure to oversode it a bunch, and do small water changes weekly.

[Laura]

I use ChloramX and no die offs yet - thanks to your guys warnings, I've been overdosing and letting the water sit 15 - 30 mins with the ChloramX and keeping an eye on them with the water change.
Has anyone contacted the City yet to ask a water engineer about seasonal proceedural changes?  I seem to recall someone did in the spring or last fall....

[dan2x38]

I agree about the break down of chloramine. If there is a large amount of choralforms detected then larger amounts of chloramine are added. Mseguin makes a good point too about size of WCs. Larger change larger impact. If large WCs needed do 2 a week during peek water treatment periods. Research City water charts to determine these periods- spring run-off, heavy summer rainy periods, heavy mosquitoe season etc.

Charlie says you can use Prime up to 5 x regular dose.

Excess run-offs into the water table affect the wells. Additional choralforms, pesticides, heavy metals, etc. affect the water that might not all get filter out before it's added.

As mentioned several times I totally believe in treating, aerating, and maturing my water in bins no less then 24 hrs. before WCs. In fact for aerating I use a small sponge filter in my bis to me it is just a little added protection.

As the old addage goes, "An once of prevention is worth a pound of cure." Damn-it if I did not learn that (again) recently by just the once not using my a QT and adding new fish hence my 1st Ich attack...  I Live and learn! It only takes the once... 

[succinctfish]

Add me to the possible water change death watch.  I did a twenty percent water change in one of my tanks last night. Right now my two female rams and my two pineapple swordtails are at the surface of the water in obvious distress.  I have added a bunch more prime, fingers crossed as I love my wild caught ram girls.  This whole thing is so distressing.

[succinctfish]

The fish have finally stopped breathing heavily at the surface, and are now breathing faster than I would like, but swimming around normally.  I double dosed the Prime last night when I did the water change, and today when it became apparent the fish were in distress I double dosed the tank again, and made use of a great superpet close out sale item, the back up battery powered air pump I bought.  Fingers crossed that all will be well.  My pigfish boy, the romantically challenged pineapple swordtail, has resumed his ineffectual attempts at fishy love with the female swordtail, so he is definitely feeling better.  Sigh of relief for the reprieve.