The Molly Killer Strikes Again!

[fishycanuck]

No mollycoddling around here, no siree!
I have terrible luck with mollies. I had several in my first year of fishkeeping, never managed to keep them alive for more than a few months.  Haven't had them for years.

In August, I decided to buy some again. You may recall my posts about brackish water and whether or not it was needed. The consensus was no - and I bought three silver and one comet (? he's very orange) molly for my 10G. They share digs with two neon tetras and three zebra danios. It's a mature set-up with driftwood and java moss.

The female silver molly died shortly after dropping a litter. A male silver died this week - he never was as plump as the others. The remaining silver and the comet look healthy and active.

The tank tests consistently at:
pH 7.0
ammonia 0
nitrItes 0
nitrAtes 10-20.

Wassup?

[Fishnut]

The consensis was no on Mollies requiring brackish water?!  Oh Dear OVAS members!  Mollies absolutely should be in brackish water!!  They are very versitile little fish because they can go from 100% freshwater and gradually be acclimated to salt water that marine fish live in.  Some marine keepers use mollies to cycle a new tank set-up because they're a lot cheaper than salt water fish.

Mollies should ideally be kept in brackish water.  They don't thrive in eother salt water or fresh water, but they thrive in brackish. 

I'm sure you're completely discouraged with your experience, but give it another shot.  Set up a tank with 2 TBSP of marine salt (not the aquarium salt) per gallon of water.

Mollies, like other livebearers should have a lot of vegetable in their diet, so they should be fed spirulina and a few other vegetable based people foods as well as the staple flake food.

I hope you try again!

[beowulf]

The consensis was no on Mollies requiring brackish water?!  Oh Dear OVAS members!  Mollies absolutely should be in brackish water!!  They are very versitile little fish because they can go from 100% freshwater and gradually be acclimated to salt water that marine fish live in.  Some marine keepers use mollies to cycle a new tank set-up because they're a lot cheaper than salt water fish.

Mollies should ideally be kept in brackish water.  They don't thrive in eother salt water or fresh water, but they thrive in brackish. 

I'm sure you're completely discouraged with your experience, but give it another shot.  Set up a tank with 2 TBSP of marine salt (not the aquarium salt) per gallon of water.

Mollies, like other livebearers should have a lot of vegetable in their diet, so they should be fed spirulina and a few other vegetable based people foods as well as the staple flake food.

I hope you try again!

The consensus at the time was that, yes they can survive in freshwater and they can.  Will they do better in salt?  Of course but that does not mean many people have not had great success with this fish in freshwater.

[fishycanuck]

So, is 2 tablespoons per gallon considered brackish? I'm so confused....

[Crumpet]

If I went brackish, I would want to be able to measure the salinity level with a hydrometer to be sure where things are.  I think it is about between 1.005 and 1.010.  Not sure what 2 tablespoons/gal would put you at, though.

Sorry to hear about your mollies!

[kennyman]

Simple test results using Red Sea Marine salt mixed with well water in bucket at 72deg F.

1 TBS/gal = apx increase of 0.0025 SG

2 TBS/GAL =0.005 SG which emulates the Oligohaline zone of Brackish water ecosystems.  

4 TBS/GAL =0.010 SG. This is apx 50% seawater and is what most retail outlets run their brackish tanks at.

12 TBS/GAL =0.030 SG and works well for hatching brineshrimp.

Why not just use Aquarium salt? What this is really all about is Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) and marine salt has a full compliment of TDS. Yes you can keep fish like mollies without the higher levels of sodium associated with true brackish water. But they still require elevated levels of calcium and magnesium which are primary components of the Total Dissolved Solids.

In other words: Check your GH  

[fishycanuck]

Whew - so GH is a test I can do with a kit? Or as a calculation from the other parameters?
What is the difference between table salt, marine salt, and aquarium salt?

[MikeM]

What is the difference between table salt, marine salt, and aquarium salt?

Table salt = NaCl (Sodium Chloride) that has been iodized because people need iodine in their diet and adding it to salt is easy.
Aquarium salt = Kosher salt = Pure NaCl crystals, usually larger crystals than table salt
Marine salt = Aquarium salt + many trace elements to mimic a true marine environment

Marine salt will raise the TDS and general hardness more than aquarium salt will.

GH is closely related to the TDS (raising one will always raise the other), the same is true of KH.  In the case of the mollies, there are probably other elements (present in the marine mix), that they benefit from, besides salt.  This is likely why they can thrive in hard freshwater with a higher pH, they appreciate the high TDS.

[fishycanuck]

OK. I will go to Al's tomorrow and buy some aquarium salt and a kit to measure GH. I will move the danios and tetras out - can the cherry shrimp stay?
How should I increase the salt content? Over a day? A week?

[Fishnut]

Take the cherry shrimp out too.  They like the same water as the danios.

[fishycanuck]

So, after the chat last week, I went out and bought sea salt from the bulk food store (as per the expert's opinion). I wonder if it is OK to use, the ingredients are "sea salt and anti-caking agent".
Hmmm......

[Fishnut]

I read that the anti caking agent is bad...I would research it first, but I think it's bad.

[fishycanuck]

I'm inclined to agree. I'll keep it for my vichy fries.

[newfish]

Do platies like brackish water like mollies?

[fishycanuck]

Platys are just fine in fresh water.

[fishycanuck]

OK, my GH and KH tests both converted after 4 drops, making the GH 4 German degrees, or 71.6 ppm GH. Same for the KH. According to the test kit, I need to add more salt.
Slowly and carefully, we're getting there.