Fishless Cycle

[neon]

OK.  I'm trying to get my tank set up to bring in my shubunkins for the winter from the pond.  Someone told me on her to throw in a couple of dinner shrimp and let them rot, so I did.  My ammonia levels are very high, 8.0, my nitrites are 0.25 and my nitrates are between 0 and 5.0, all on the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Freshwater Test Kit.  Where am I in the cycle?  I guess if my ammonia levels are high, and the nitrates and nitrates are low, I don't have enough bacteria in the filter yet.  How do I get this established?  Any info would be appreciated.

[KLKelly]

I have no idea.  When I fishless cycled my ammonia was all gone before nitrates showed up.  I used ammonia though. 

Did your nitrites spike yet?  Are they disappearing or just starting.  If they are just starting do you have nitrates in your tap water?

The problem with shrimp is you can't measure the amount of ammonia you are adding and how much the filter media is eating up (and converting per day).  For example when I was fishless cycling for a low bioload tank - my filter was eating up 2.0 ppm of ammonia in a 24 hour period.  Once nitrites peaked and declined and nitrates started showing at 5 I did a big water change.  The next day there was no nitrites, no ammonia and just nitrates.  I added fish the next day.

Here is the fishless cycling regiment I used: http://thegab.org/Articles/FishlessCycling.html

This document on cycling shows the nitrogen cycle through cycling: http://thegab.org/Articles/WaterQualityCycling.html

[dan2x38]

I've heard it said here to add a shrimp or two. I know NH3 peaks faster then any other nitrifying bacteria and it will show high readings just before NO2 starts to climb. NO2 takes the longest to peak. As I understand it your bio-filter will adjust to the bio-load that is if you have a decent filter and good media surface. What filter do you have? What size tank?

Using pure NH3 my readings were much like yours.

KLKelly makes a great point about the NH3 testing then see if it is back to zero the next day. If that is happening and NO2 is zero after too then your filter is cycled. Remember those fish have a big bio-load so you will need a good bio-filter to handle their addition.... IMO

[neon]

I have a 33 gallon long with a fluval on it.

[neon]

And how long should I leave the shrimp in?  I'll test my water again tonight and post on here.

[dan2x38]

And how long should I leave the shrimp in?  I'll test my water again tonight and post on here.

My best guess with a shrimp fishless cycle would be when your NO2 spikes. It should drop and reading for NH3 & NO2 read zero. NO3 should be more than zero too 5, 10, etc. I would remove the shrimp then add a couple hardy fish. Test while the new fish are added. The bio-filter should handle their bio-load with NH3 & NO2 at zero. Wait a week or 2 before adding more fish. Do not add large amounts of fish at any one time will cause a spike in NH3 & NO2.

This is all IMO I have never used the shrimpy method but can't see why the whole cycle would not be the same when using pure NH3 to fishless cycle.

[BigDaddy]

Too much ammonia can actually stall a cycle.  If you want to speed your cycle up, get some mature media from someone to introduce more bacteria to your setup

[neon]

Could I add some of the filter media from the filter in my pond?  Its been running all summer.

[BigDaddy]

Sure if it will fit in your aquarium filter.

[neon]

OK.  My ammonia level today is 4, my nitrite is 0.25, and my nitrate is between 0 and 5.  It seems my ammonia is down a bit from yesterday.

[neon]

So my nitrates and nitrites are the same, and my ammonia is down a bit.  What does this mean?

[MikeM]

Most likely, it means you are nearing the end of the first part of the cycle.  The second part of the cycle is the nitrite peak.  As your ammonia level drops to zero, you should expect to see your nitrite level climb very high (possibly off the chart), and then come back down.  In my experience, the nitrite portion is the longer portion of the fishless cycle.  Once your ammonia and nitrite are consistently at zero, you will be able to do a massive water change and add your stock.

Don't worry too much about your nitrate levels this early along.  Once your ammonia is at zero and your nitrite is on the way back down, you can start testing for nitrate.  Basically, seeing the nitrate level going up assures you that the cycle is establishing itself, but the level (unless it's very very high) isn't really relevant to the cycle.  You'll want to do a big water change before adding fish when the cycle is complete so they are not exposed to the high level of nitrates that fishless cycling produces.

[neon]

ok.  I'll do a water test every day, and when my nitrite spikes and my ammonia level drops, I'll remove the shrimp.  And I'll keep testing every day until they are both at 0, then I'll do a large water change, test again, and if everything is ok, I'll add my fish.  I have 2 shubunkins about 6 inches long and a bunch of babies.

[dan2x38]

Could I add some of the filter media from the filter in my pond?  Its been running all summer.

Maybe take a small piece stick it in a piece of pant hose and put in the corner of your tank.

[neon]

My water parameters tonight are ammonia, between 2 and 4, nitrite, between 1 and 2 and my nitrates are still 0.  So I think I'm entering the second part of the cycle, the nitrite spike.

[renadia]

Did you add a piece of filter from your pond? I also have a pond and will bring in my Koi