Beaten up angel.... in her own tank...

[Kats]

It happened!!  My angels have always been nice and never harassed one another since we bought them in December....  (yep, the ones in the 5g).

We have since moved 2 of them in the 46g (doing well) and we wanted to wait 1 week before moving another but, I came home today and one of the 3 in the 5g was trying to hide behind the filter tube and it looks like he/she is missing some scales on one side (the one exposed).   

I have moved him/her to our quarantine tank, hopefully that will make it better!!!  My QT tank has no filter/heater... how long can I keep the angel in there for?  Could it last 3 to 4 days with daily small water changes?

Meanwhile, how do I tell if I have too many males?  I'm wondering if I have all males in my tank.  The two silver angels (in the 46g) have never shown signs of aggression (yet), but there is one of the black stripped ones(with white and light touches of yellow) that seems to be doing most of the picking at the others.

Can anyone tell me how to sex angels?

[fischkopp]

It may have been better to move all 5 together. Angels are territorial and can be aggressive, but in a group the aggression is spread over all individuals rather than two picking on one poor guy ...

[charlie]

Kats , how long has it been since you moved the first 2  & how is your water parameters.
If the water is fine i would move the other 2 & put the batterd guy in the 5 gln.
Regards

[Kats]

Kats , how long has it been since you moved the first 2  & how is your water parameters.
If the water is fine i would move the other 2 & put the battered guy in the 5 gln.

Sounds like a plan!  I like that idea. 

The water params in the 46g are: 0 nitrite and nitrate, 0.5 ammonia and PH 7.4,

Will that not make the 2 (dominant) even more aggressive towards the other one though if they are in the 46g first?

[charlie]

I`m a little concerned about the readings you are getting, 0 nitrite & nitrate with a 0.5 ammonia , to me indicates the beginning of a cycle.
I think it should be - 0 ammonia , 0 nitrite, and some nitrate. I`d like to hear what others think.
Regards

[Laura]

For the folks who know more about angels.....would it be worth putting them all in together in the 46 gallon, and moving the rocks around at the same time, sort of to put them on even footing wrt new territories, then watching them to see if the picked on guy was doing okay?

For any ammonia readings, I would keep up the water changes, and feed minimally.

[babblefish1960]

For the folks who know more about angels.....would it be worth putting them all in together in the 46 gallon, and moving the rocks around at the same time, sort of to put them on even footing wrt new territories, then watching them to see if the picked on guy was doing okay?

For any ammonia readings, I would keep up the water changes, and feed minimally.

Absolutely, good thinking, change the environment and keep them all together, this should offer the runt a chance to be forgotten as there is no longer familiar territory for the bullies.  It is your best bet, and as laura says, and a few others, change the water in small doses frequently to aid in their distress.

[dan2x38]

I don't know about angese either but what about salt to hddelp the damage guy, relieve stress, & help detoxify any possible increase in NO2... like Charlie said sounds like a new cycle readings? sure you don't have the NO2 mixed up with the NO3?

[Kats]

I don't know about angese either but what about salt to hddelp the damage guy, relieve stress, & help detoxify any possible increase in NO2... like Charlie said sounds like a new cycle readings? sure you don't have the NO2 mixed up with the NO3?

Didn't know about salt for stress relief... I have used it to cure ick but I gave each fish an individual 5 second bath in salted water then back to their tank.  Should I add the salt directly into the tank when the angels are all in?

The NO2 is at 0 and NO3 is at 0 too.  Only the ammonia is at 0.5

I will be keeping a definite close eye on everything for the next 24 hours.  I'll move all the angels together as suggested, only makes sense... keeping them distracted and all.  I also added a bunch of fake plants in the tank to help with hiding spots... my live plants need to grow a tidbit more.   

[charlie]

  I also added a bunch of fake plants in the tank to help with hiding spots... my live plants need to grow a tidbit more.   

Forget the plastic, come to meeting on Monday with big bags & stuff that tank with lots of fast growing  stem plants  , that will give the fish lots of hiding space & help keep  the ammonia down.
Regards

[Laura]

Absolutely come to the meeting - there are always lots of plants.
Charlie - I would think the additional plastic plants just to mix up the territories in the tank would be good right now.  I don't believe you're saying they're a bad idea - just that Kats should come to the auction for some fishy fun!?

[charlie]

I don't believe you're saying they're a bad idea - just that Kats should come to the auction for some fishy fun!?

That is what i meant , thanks Laura.
Regards

[Kats]

Forget the plastic, come to meeting on Monday with big bags & stuff that tank with lots of fast growing  stem plants  , that will give the fish lots of hiding space & help keep  the ammonia down.
Regards

I'll be there for sure on Monday!  And, like Dan2x38 says, I'll bring a pocket full of change!!  See you then!

Gotta love fishy fun!!! 

[babblefish1960]

I don't know about angese either but what about salt to hddelp the damage guy, relieve stress, & help detoxify any possible increase in NO2... like Charlie said sounds like a new cycle readings? sure you don't have the NO2 mixed up with the NO3?

Whoa with the salt already, these are ornamental fish not fish and chips!     It is not the panacea you are expressing it to be, it ceased to be the universal cure-all in the late 70's when other more natural methods were used. Salt does not bode well for many fish, most invertabrates and of course plants. Let's try to help by keeping it scientific, one regimen at a time, rather than going willy nilly with all manner of fixes.


Just move the fish together in one tank, put whatever you can in there for now to offer line of sight blocks for the fish, and bring lots of bags for Monday night.

[KLKelly]

How long have the fish been in the 46?  Were you feeding them since being in there?
Did you dechlorinate the tap water that you filled your tank with when you put on the filter with the cycled media in it?

Poor Angel : (  I feel so bad for them when they get picked on - thats how I got into this hobby.  I rescued an oranda goldfish from 2 cichlids at a local auto shop.

[Kats]

Whoa with the salt already, these are ornamental fish not fish and chips!     It is not the panacea you are expressing it to be, it ceased to be the universal cure-all in the late 70's when other more natural methods were used.

In the 70's...  wow!!  I got that "tip" from a book, I bough at BA, written in 2001.  I thought it was kind of "old country style cure" but I tried it and it worked (for ich).  I probably used up all my share of luck by having my fish survive that!! 

Just move the fish together in one tank, put whatever you can in there for now to offer line of sight blocks for the fish, and bring lots of bags for Monday night.

Done...  I had been using the 46g tank water to do water changes in the 5g over the past week so they took to the new tank fairly well.  Kept them in a QT tank for a while dripping some new water in then did the swap.

Now... that fish and chip idea sounds yummy!!!
Too bad all the chip stands are closed!!   

[Kats]

How long have the fish been in the 46?  Were you feeding them since being in there?
Did you dechlorinate the tap water that you filled your tank with when you put on the filter with the cycled media in it?

The first 2 angels were put in 3 days ago.  I feed them but very sparingly.  We used Prime x 5 on the tap water used to fill the 46g and had 3 filter media in there for 3 days and there are still 2 of them in there now.  I'll take one out tomorrow and the other on Monday.

[dan2x38]

Now... that fish and chip idea sounds yummy!!!
Too bad all the chip stands are closed!!   

To salt or not-to-salt that is the question but remember never vinegar... 

[Kats]

I just updated my gallery with pictures of the angels....  I'm a pretty proud angel auntie (my daughter is their mommy   )!!

[dan2x38]

I just updated my gallery with pictures of the angels....  I'm a pretty proud angel auntie (my daughter is their mommy   )!!

Nice job guys! The angels look happy... I see the sunsets are starting to take off nicely...