Small Tank Frustration - Advice Seeked!

[Oceanne]

OK, so I've been trying to set up an African cichlid tank for while now, and pondering over it, and dreaming about it for even longer.. 

I've done lots of research, and can't seem to find what I'm looking for, although I have trouble defining what that is!!  My BF is threatening that one day, I'll come home and the tank will be set up and running...  And I'm threatening that one day he'll come and our 55g planted com tank will be switched to the 25g..   

So the tank I have for the cichlids is a 25g tank.

I know I could get julies and shellies, but they are my backup plan for now, as I would prefer some cichlids that are more..  cichlidesque??  I would also prefer mouthbrooders..

I've been checking the Dr. Axelrod's Mini-Atlas of Freshwater Aquarium Fishes for inspiration and ideas..  According to this book, here are cichlids that I like (usually colorfull ones..) and that (according to Dr. Axelrod!!) can live in a 100L (25g) tank:

Melanochromis johannii (but they grow to 12cm, will they really be happy in a 25g???)

Melanochromis simulans (same dilemma as above)

Pseudotropheus elongatus (8-10cm)

Cynotilapia sp. and afra (8cm)

Neolamprologus leleupi (10cm)

Tropheus sp. aff. moorii (10cm) - yes, I've read that these guys will kill themselves if in a small group (less than 12 individuals), so I guess they're out..   

Would some of the guys mentioned above be happy in my 25g?  If so, how many of them would comfortably fit in there?  I find it odd that they can live in a 100L tank if they grow to around 10cm..

Any other options out there for me??
Getting discouraged here...

[beowulf]

You could use it for a while I guess if you get the young and small enough but sooner or later you would have to move them to something larger.  A good reason for another tank for sure!! 

[darkdep]

The fact is, to really enjoy Africans you simply need a larger tank.  A 55g is a perfect size; really, once you hit a 4 foot tank you can keep most things happily.

From your list above, Johanni will be fine, Afra too if not too many.  Haven't kept the others.

You'll run into aggression issues with a tank that small before anything else. 

I've kept Africans in tanks from 33g up to 90g, and am about to buy/build a new 7 foot tank so I'll be able to truly keep anything.

[succinctfish]

What about a pair of pelvicachromis or kribensis?  They are pretty cichlids, and certainly African in origin.  After all, not everyone has room for a big tank. 

[Brine]

I had some lithobates in a 40G tank. I got them when they were REALLY young and they were fairly slow growing. I had them for over a year before I sold them and they were still fine in the 40G. I suppose you could do the same with any cichlids if you got them when they were very small. You just need to plan to get a bigger tank before they need the room.
Might I also suggest Apisto's?

[sniggir]

I would upgrade and look on this form for a good deal... I realy like julies... myself, but I guess I am just one of those ugly brown fish people as Babble calls us.. anyway if it is a malawi tank you are looking for I would definatly look into getting a 55 or larger, the you can keep Acei some peacocks and such... also remeber the more rock the better!!

Pat

[bitterman]

Honestly no mater what tank you have will seam small after you have it for a while. My 195 and 180 both seam small to me now Wish I coudl upgrade to waht APW is proposing, but 8' tanks cost alot of $$$.

I woudl advise upgrade your tank and save and get what you want. If you don't you will eventually sping for hte tnak you want and spence mucho $$$$ in the mean time. If your heat is set on say a 90 you might want to wait for the Big Al's Boxing day sale. last year they had GREAT!!! deals!!!!!

Bruce

[hamstercaster]

I too would suggest you hit the 55 gallon mark asap lol.. or bigger if you can.  I started with a 55 and when it leaked, I quickly upgraded to a 75 which is the same foot print except that it's 6 inches deeper... then got MTS although I claimed high and strong that I was cured of MTS... doh.. there is no cure lol... and after getting a 40 gallon from Dark Dep a sold it to Lord Joda, the master of all Jedis here on the forums and got a 94 gallon, a 5 footer.... all this to say that you will not regret going big sooner rather than later because bigger you will go, that's a certainty.  Also, if you are an African Cichlid beginner, I would gain experience with easier cichlids of the likes of labs, lithobates, perhaps a rusty, zebra etc and stay away... very far away from Tropheus which are not really recommended for the beginners.  They are costly to aquire and you need a good bunch in order for them to strive and be happy and I doubt you want to invest that much money in a fish that comes with no garantees of success.  Labs, although common are very beautiful, Red Zebras are nice, lithobates can be very beautiful when they are in their party dress but may look like minows at times, one of the nicest fish out there but also one of the ugliest lol.. depending on if he's colored up or not.  Some Afras are very nice too.  You definitly need a bigger tank with hiding places and a good group of fish in order to spread agression and you should be all right.  Tangs are nice too in their own rights ;-)

[Oceanne]

I'd love to go bigger  , but right now, the limiting factor is the size of the house!  We've already had to move the couch to make the com 55g fit (it's behind it)!!  And as I've just moved in a few weeks ago, I'm not ready to do it again so soon!!

But let's speak hypothetically..  What minimum size would I need for labs and other fish that would go well with them?  (I'm really hoping Xiaan doesn't see this message.....) 

We already have apistos in the com tank..  Well, apisto..  Lost one today..   

Well, unless someone else has another suggestion, I guess I'll go with Julies and Shellies. 

Thanks for all the feedback BTW!

[PoisonJello]

if you really have your heart set on african cichlids and can't afford a larger tank just make sure to get the africans that stay under 3" and they should be fine in a 25gal, i would think no more then 6 maybe 7 but have good filteration there are many different africans under and up to 3" just have a look on http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/index.php I'm sure you will find some you like and maybe sometime down the road you can get yourself a bigger tank 65g, 75g, or 90g are usually really cheap at the BA boxing day sale

[markw]

Make sure you don't mix Tangs with Malawians.ie. Lamprologus with pseudotrophs. etc. They survive, but won't thrive. Stick to shellies for the small tank. I'd be careful with the julies. They can get very territorial when breeding and they can take over a tank rather quickly. A 55 gal. is minimum footprint for most africans when they reach maturity. Like everyone says... try and go bigger, or be very careful about what and how many you select remembering that many species of Cichlids are intolerant to new additions to the tank after they establish themselves.
You're doing the right thing by researching now and doing it right the first time. Be patient and you'll be thankful later!
markw