Defintion Of Mature

[RossW]

I keep hearing things like "your tank is too young", "you need a mature tank for blah".

What is really meant by this?  Is it stability of parameters?  Is it in reference to the quantity of pods?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks In Advance,
Ross

[Zzippper]

Good question. I would also like to know.

Z

[xenon]

I was told 1year is still considered pretty young.

[beertech]

I would say it's a combination of all those and more.  A good population of pods, beneficial bacteria, stable ph, Alk, etc... Also it takes time for a tank to go through all the "stages" of different algaes and cyano etc.. which could take up to a year to show up.  Not to mention the owner of the tank has to go through all the trials and tribulations, to gain enough experience and knowledge to make good rational decisions and handle all types of problems that could come up.  In other words, it's all relative to what your plans for the tank are..  simple fish only set-up or complex full reef. 

Gord

[RossW]

My problem is that I am an analytical person and need facts, blanket statements do not convince me.  Thus, I do not always follow convential wisdom but you can convince me with facts.

I want things for my tank that I am told is not ready.  i.e.: mandarin, clam, BTA

I want to know what a clam requires that a "young" tank does not provide?  Same for a BTA.  I think a mandarin only needs pods which I can supplement, no?

[beertech]

Well, like I said, each addition has different requirements.  The clam requires high intensity lights, (halides would be best). Clams also feed on Nitrates,and Phytoplankton which can be supplemented and help your overall pod population.  Flow is important for the clam and Bta.    The Bta also needs high light, and very stable salinity, ph, low nutrients.  Of course, there are people who say they can keep clams etc under just T-5's, but if you look at long term (in years) success, it's just not as good as halides.  The mandarin needs a constant (daytime) supply of live pods, not frozen mysis, unless you're one of the lucky ones.  In my opinion, it's really difficult if not impossible for the average aquariast to keep up with a feeding schedule that would be suitable for a mandarin.  It's much like trying to keep Sun polyps, or non photosynthetic Gorgionians.  It seems easy enough initially, but after a while, it's human nature to start to slack off and the fish or coral suffers. Many people think very short termed, instead of in years.  I personally have a clam and Mandarin in my tank. Both have been happy for a couple of years so far.  I have halides, and my tank has been running for 5 years without interuption. I have tried Sun polyps and non photo Gorgs, and both have died after about 6-7 months.  Personally, it was just too hard to stick to the feeding schedule.  But, in the end, it really is up to the individual, and there are so many variables that I don't think you can expect to get the same answer from any 2 people.  Just as long as you're willing to really try to provide the best care for whatever animal you plan to keep, not just the bare minimum temporary requirements.  Good luck,

Gord

[RossW]

Gord, thanx for the details.  It is appreciated.

[RoxyDog]

Yeah, I don't think there's gonna be a hard fast rule there for ya Ross.    I think that a year is what most people consider a "stable" point for trying things you shouldn't try right away.  But, if you read a lot, ask questions and care about your tank and it's inhabitants, it's really up to you.  I put a BTA in @ 6 months b/c my tank had gone through it's cycles, the fish and corals were all happy, I maintained my tank properly and I felt I'd read every single piece of info on the internet there was about keeping a BTA.     But, I'd still not try a mandarin, non-photo gorg or clam b/c I know it's not ready.  Or I'm not ready.  I think most of the experienced hobbiests out there want to keep these animals alive as long as possible, and by continuing to suggest a mature tank, or a year old tank, before trying some of these sensitive creatures, they just might keep some poor anemone from being the first thing dumped in a week old tank!

[kennyman]

I believe maturity in a SW tank is closely related to developing an equilibrium between elements and microorganisms. I would not argue the learning curve Beertech suggests but I would add some environmental considerations.

The cycle that we so often refer to can be extended to encompass diatom and successive algal phases. We go through "Blooms" as organisms take advantage of resources and space within the tank. They are phases in that once they consume the accumulated resources, populations decline and they become just another part of the ecosystem within your tank. The concept of Mutual Antagonism suggests that the role of one organism within the ecosystem can discourage another organism. An example of this is Coraline competing with green algae for nutrients and surface area. The strong presence of Coraline can discourage green algae development or visa-versa and this is mutual antagonism. Also the use of sugars can produce more bacterial organisms that may outcompete cyanobacteria which they have an antagonistic relationship with.

Once an organism passes through a bloom and establishes a sustainable population other organisms adjust. That process represents the maturation of an aquarium to me. This process takes conciderable time as all these things interact with each other.

If you want to be analytical about what goes on in a SW aquarum you will need to understand what is in there apart from what you purchased in a store 

[beertech]

"If you want to be analytical about what goes on in a SW aquarum you will need to understand what is in there apart from what you purchased in a store"

This is a great statement!  It should be quoted to every newby! 

[RossW]

If you want to be analytical about what goes on in a SW aquarum you will need to understand what is in there apart from what you purchased in a store 

That is precisely what this thread is all about.  Trying to read between "your tank is too young for xyz" sounds magical to me.  It seems that very few know the answers or are willing to share

I guess what I would really like to know: Is there something I can measure, other than months, which will tell me when my tank is ready for xyz?  Maybe my tank is ready @ 6 months, maybe 18 months, I am confident it is dependant upon MANY factors.

I have not had any significant blooms and my tank is 3.5 months old, I am not sure if this is good or bad.

[Tyler.L]

it differes from tank to tank.....just like fish do some people can keep angels with sps lps no problems and others have troubles all depends on the tank.....i personally would say a mature tank would be starting at 6 months but if you carry water over from an already pre-existing tank then it basically imo is ready to rock and is already mature..just say 6 months as thats where i have seen it everywhere stating that it a mature tank is startin at 6 months.

[sniggir]

hey Ross

I would have to agree with what has been said so far, and you are right there is no exact sience to your tank, pending on your lighting I would say a derisa would be okay but if this is all going into your 24 gal I would wait till your 120 is set up. especialy for the manderin... they may be small but they need a lot of pods. I have heard of people keeping them in small tanks but it either involed them feeding from ordered live mysis and other pods, or have a fuge that they could breed without being consumed.

I would try not to cheat time with ertain things, especialy for the pod stability, know for the clam if ya got the light and your tank is stable I would say go for it!

cheers