No fish, planted aquarium, CO2 needed?

[cemantic]

I have our goldfish in the pond.  I cleaned and totally re-did the 110 gallon aquarium.  I have then planted the aquarium.  The Goldie's are probably going in a kiddie pool for the winter if we can find the right size, maybe a basement pond.

I would like to get a nice balanced aquarium and some interesting fish that do not trash the plants like the Goldie's did.

For now though, with fertilization, using Seachem Flourish, do you needed added CO2 to get the best plant growth?

[attachment deleted by admin]

[cemantic]

more info:

tank is 18 wide, 48 long and 30 inches high.

Using Seachem Flourite red as a substrate and about an inch of gravel on top of that.

two banks of light in a DIY canopy painted white, NO reflectors in top, with two banks of 48" lights that can be or not be on.  One has two 4100K and one 6500K the other has two 6500K and one 4100K.  Both types of bulbs are 54 watts set on a timer independant of each other.

Water temperature is about 74 degrees, unheated right now but will be when necessary to keep it about the same temperature.

tank is in an unfinished basement.

Some of this I guess will be determined by what type of fish to get.

Maybe jumping the gun here and should rethink.

[presto]

Use DIY yeast generated CO2 until your sure you want to invest in a pressurized system.

The DIY method definitely produces results, especially combined with fertilizers(I like dry ferts) and good lighting.

Your tank is somewhere in the 100 Gallon range, so 2x54w lights are approx. 1wpg. You should have 2.5wpg+ for best plant growing results.

Keep in mind balance. You need balanced light, ferts, and co2.

Lower light range = less co2, less fertilizer.

Sounds like you have a nice set-up in the works, plenty of room for schools of fish

[Toss]

You will need a lot of sugar for that size of tank mind as well buy the pressurized system.

[charlie]

more info:

tank is 18 wide, 48 long and 30 inches high.

Using Seachem Flourite red as a substrate and about an inch of gravel on top of that.

two banks of light in a DIY canopy painted white, NO reflectors in top, with two banks of 48" lights that can be or not be on.  One has two 4100K and one 6500K the other has two 6500K and one 4100K.  Both types of bulbs are 54 watts set on a timer independant of each other.

Water temperature is about 74 degrees, unheated right now but will be when necessary to keep it about the same temperature.

tank is in an unfinished basement.

Some of this I guess will be determined by what type of fish to get.

Maybe jumping the gun here and should rethink.

A few questions

two banks of light in a DIY canopy painted white, NO reflectors in top, with two banks of 48" lights that can be or not be on. One has two 4100K and one 6500K the other has two 6500K and one 4100K.

Exactly how many 54 watt T5 lamps do you have over the tank?  ? x 54 watts = ?? total watts

Using Seachem Flourite red as a substrate and about an inch of gravel on top of that

How high is your flourite bed ?
What gravel are you putting on you of the Floutite?
Why are you topping the Flourite?
The answers will probably get you better recommendations

[cemantic]

there are two ballasts with three tubes connected to each.  they are wired so that they are every other one, meaning that there is one tube connected to the first ballast, then the next in line is connected to the second ballast so every other one is connected to one ballast.  That way I can have all six running or only three.  The reason I have so many is the 30" deapth of the tank.  They are all 54 watts each.  They are T5 bulbs, 4100K and 6500K.  I also read that the combination of 4100K (a bluer light) with the 6500K would give the optimum representation of sunlight.

The substrate is covered with about an inch of gravel   My reading at the time suggested that there should be some cover over the substrate and particularly with having goldie's in there.

[charlie]

there are two ballasts with three tubes connected to each.  they are wired so that they are every other one, meaning that there is one tube connected to the first ballast, then the next in line is connected to the second ballast so every other one is connected to one ballast.  That way I can have all six running or only three.  The reason I have so many is the 30" deapth of the tank.  They are all 54 watts each.  They are T5 bulbs, 4100K and 6500K.  I also read that the combination of 4100K (a bluer light) with the 6500K would give the optimum representation of sunlight.

The substrate is covered with about an inch of gravel   My reading at the time suggested that there should be some cover over the substrate and particularly with having goldie's in there.

A couple of things , 4100K is more Yellow & very little blue, sunlight is more in the 6400 K range . The short answers are , with 3 bulbs( 3x54watts) you won`t need co2 & very minimal ferts but limited as to which plants you will be able to keep ( note  i said won`t need & not don`t need, with all 6 lights on you will need  to inject co2 & ferts but your options of plants is greater, as was mentioned doing DIY co2 is possible on that size of tank, but difficult to maintain consistent levels.

[cemantic]

Still at the experimental stage so don't want to get involved with CO2 canisters, regulators and needle valves just yet.

I could do the DIY CO2 pop bottle which would be fun to do anyways but Big Al's has these:

Hagen CO2 natural generators.

http://www.bigalsonline.ca/StoreCatalog/ctl3664/cp18056/si1315084/cl1/plant_gro_co2_natural_system?&query=hagen&queryType=0&offset=

or my own generator and use their bubbler

http://www.bigalsonline.ca/StoreCatalog/ctl3664/cp18056/si1315086/cl1/plant_gro_co2_system_bubble_counter?&query=hagen&queryType=0&offset=

$20 for just the bubbler and $45 for the whole thing.  The extra $25 may be worth it for the better hose and then not necessary to screw around trying to find a place to put my own and the Hagen unit you can just hang off the outside of the tank.

Suggestions are definitely welcome.

Thanks

[presto]

$2 a year in tubing, if that, to replace the co2 damaged stuff. I personally have never had problems with the cheapest bulk tubing with my DIY systems.

Since you'll need 2-3 bottles for your tank size, you'll have to build a custom rig anyways.
All they use to hang them is a wide bent piece of metal attached to the bottle.
Buy check valves(I strongly suggest this).

The bubble ladder is good, but the bottle is just too small and not worth it.

[charlie]

I can share my personal experience with DIY co2 on a 55 gallon  - with 3 WPG i had 3 x 2l pop bottles & was switching out one bottle per week was still not able to keep or generate enough co2 levels , i give up & went pressurised, your tank is a 110 gallons.

I know of another member here who had a 90 gallon tank & was using 6 x 2l pop bottles to try & keep his co2 levels up, don`t know if he was able to, i can also tell you inconsistent co2 levels will 9 out of 10 times bring on algae bloom so the trick will be to switch out the bottles often enough to maintain the levels.
Regards

[cemantic]

Thanks for the replies.

It seems like a DIY for this size tank is probably not a good idea.

So my next question is pressurized systems.  There are parts that have been recommended from a site on a previous post here.

http://www.rexgrigg.com/co2.htm

What he says seems to make sense.  He recommends this anyways as part of it.
http://www.bigalsonline.ca/StoreCatalog/ctl3664/cp18056/si1315086/cl1/plant_gro_co2_system_bubble_counter?&query=hagen&queryType=0&offset=

My next question is can you buy these parts in town and can you at least buy a tank in town and is there a place that you can get it refilled with CO2.

Is there any other options in equipment etc.?  there must be packaged systems but I would bet are expensive.

Is anything here a reasonable option?
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+3747

again any suggestions?

Thanks

[charlie]

Thanks for the replies.

It seems like a DIY for this size tank is probably not a good idea.

So my next question is pressurized systems.  There are parts that have been recommended from a site on a previous post here.

http://www.rexgrigg.com/co2.htm

What he says seems to make sense.  He recommends this anyways as part of it.
http://www.bigalsonline.ca/StoreCatalog/ctl3664/cp18056/si1315086/cl1/plant_gro_co2_system_bubble_counter?&query=hagen&queryType=0&offset=

My next question is can you buy these parts in town and can you at least buy a tank in town and is there a place that you can get it refilled with CO2.

Is there any other options in equipment etc.?  there must be packaged systems but I would bet are expensive.

Is anything here a reasonable option?
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+3747

again any suggestions?

Thanks

Here is a link to a thread that will address most of your questions
http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=26165.0

Is anything here a reasonable option?
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=3578+3747

The pkg deal on the kit for 119.00 is a workable soulution, that said my personal choice is the regulator from Sumo regulators with the swagelok needle valve & added bubble counter , ( i have one & can`t say enough about the build quality & customer service)

[cemantic]

Thank you Charlie and others for your reply.

I checked out all kinds of things and that one system for $119.00 was an option but they wanted $120 US to ship it so that then makes the Sumo regulators and Ideal needle valve a better option.  I have sent an email to them for a quote and am waiting for a reply.

Tanks are $95 used in town, about $140 for new.

I will probably go with the Sumo with an ideal valve and bubble counter.

What else do I need?

Is it worth making a DIY reactor or can I just use a diffuser like the Hagen mentioned earlier?

Thanks again

[charlie]

Thank you Charlie and others for your reply.

I checked out all kinds of things and that one system for $119.00 was an option but they wanted $120 US to ship it so that then makes the Sumo regulators and Ideal needle valve a better option.  I have sent an email to them for a quote and am waiting for a reply.

Tanks are $95 used in town, about $140 for new.

I will probably go with the Sumo with an ideal valve and bubble counter.

What else do I need?

Is it worth making a DIY reactor or can I just use a diffuser like the Hagen mentioned earlier?

Thanks again

In all honesty i don`t recommend  spending money on the ideal valve ( way over kill), yes it is a great valve but not really necessary for most planted tanks, you will be well served with the swagelok valve.

The price on 10 lb bottles filled with co2 can be had for around 75.00, shop around  in this post there is mention of 2 dealers of co2 in this area
http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=26165.0

The hagen co2 ladder for diffusion is unknown to me as to how it will perform on such a large tank, you will probably be better off with a DIY or manufactured co2 reactor .
Hope this helps

[Toss]

Ladder type reactor is not very effective. DIY with powerhead+gravel vac tube is a good option. For me, I use canister filter. Not many people like it but it works just fine with me.
If you buy tank from outside Canada, make sure there is a stamp on it to be refillable here. Errol is right, shop around and be patient and you will get a good deal
There is an aluminum tank available but a bit more pricey. They are a lot more lighter than the steel ones. I have a Milwaukee setup. You can buy this local. It is an average quality. It needs some patient to set it up the way you want (bubble/sec) after that it works flawlessly until the tank is empty (a few months)

[cemantic]

Good to know, the swagelok valve will probably be my pick.  Difference in price is about $45.  It was Davidson Fire Extinguishers that quoted $95 for a used tank.  They want $225 for a new aluminum tank, kind of steep I thought.  Worth a few phone calls to find out.

I have a Rena XP3 canister filter and was thinking of a DIY reactor then hooking it up to the input tube before it goes into the canister, but would it make more sense to put it in between the canister and the out put to the tank?  Is there any other options?  I have another small pond pump I could use so the CO2 stands on it's own but that is another pump in the water and a higher electric bill.

Thanks for the replies so far.

[cemantic]

Another quick question is how does the air pump and two columns of air effect the CO2 once you do get it in there? 

The plants give up oxygen during the day or when the lights are on.  can there be such a thing as too much oxygen?

[charlie]

Good to know, the swagelok valve will probably be my pick.  Difference in price is about $45.  It was Davidson Fire Extinguishers that quoted $95 for a used tank.   They want $225 for a new aluminum tank, kind of steep I thought.  Worth a few phone calls to find out.

I have a Rena XP3 canister filter and was thinking of a DIY reactor then hooking it up to the input tube before it goes into the canister, but would it make more sense to put it in between the canister and the out put to the tank?  Is there any other options?  I have another small pond pump I could use so the CO2 stands on it's own but that is another pump in the water and a higher electric bill.

Thanks for the replies so far.

Call the other guy in Gatineau, you will probably save another 20.00 , add that to the 45.00 from the needle valve & you can get a decent co2 reactor .

[zima]

I made my own DYI external CO2 reactor that I connected to the output of my Rena XP3 filter. Cost is under $20, all parts can be bought in Rona (in my case Reno Depot in Hull). If you decide to go with it, I can give you the pipe cement that I used. Works great, diffusion of CO2 is 100%. No outflow rate issues at all, if that's a concern (it was in my case). See this thread for details:
http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=28806.0

As for the regulator, I got the Sumo one, and don't regret the extra $$ spent one bit. It is a solid piece that is much easier to adjust. The guys who sell the regulator (Mike and Sergio) are very friendly!

[cemantic]

Good suggestion Charlie.  The guy in Gatineau sells used aluminum 10lb ones for $75 full.  Davidson wanted the fill charge on top of the $95.

I have been reading different views on hooking the reactor up to the input of a canister filter vs the output.  I think the output is a better place since it is clear water there instead of any possible clogging from the input.  Does that make sense?  I would think it would be better in the respect of possible gas build up and impeller problems that way as well.  I did read somewhere that the person did not get as good an absorption rate running it from the filter output.

What is the best way to raise the GH and KH?  Adding baking soda has been the only real suggestion I have seen so far.  I would prefer to stay away from real down and dirty chemical solutions and stay with a more organic approach.