Sump Upgrade 10G to 80G!

[xiaan]

Well this morning while fiddling with some of the electrical stuff around my tank I managed to hit my sump with my elbow and crack it. 
After 2 hours and lots of towels I had removed the old sump and installed a temporary sump (my 5G Rona bucket)

Now what should I do. I think I have 3 options:
1. Fix the crack in the sump
2. Build a new sump out of a 10G tank I have lying around (For QT)
3. Build the sump down in my basement and Plumb the tank to that! 

I am going away for the weekend and the temporary sump should hold for now and the main tank seems fine.
Just my skimmer is not working the best as there is little room in the bucket! I also finally managed to install my ball unions on the overflow as I could not get the sump out without cutting the overflow lines.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Zzippper]

Doh! What a bummer! How hard is your elbow?
Not sure what advise to give you as you seem to have already figured out your options.

You've got me scared now though.... Thinking about what I would do if my sump leaked.
I don't think I could remove it short of smashing it to pieces. Then getting a new one in would be a complete nightmare.

More sleepless nights thinking about 'what if' scenarios...  lol


Z

[xiaan]

I did not hit it very hard. I almost had to cut it up but instead I cut my overflows and added some ball unions that I planed on installing just in case I had to move the tank.

[jeffd]

I would definitly not go with option #1 just not worth it IMO

[Hookup]

I am mid process of option 3 myself.  It's way better having a basement area vs a small under-cabinet spot. Any hole you put into the floor can be hidden later with a standard floor vent for heating/cooling. 

Option 3 is win   

[xiaan]

I am mid process of option 3 myself.  It's way better having a basement area vs a small under-cabinet spot. Any hole you put into the floor can be hidden later with a standard floor vent for heating/cooling. 

Option 3 is win   

Ya I was thinking of doing that anyway but I have to get the GF Permission first  .
I already have a 12G tank in my basement with a 20G garbage can sump that I was planning on setting up a frag tank. I also already have 1/2" Tubing running from my basement to the tank that I was using for my ATO that I could use for the return. The biggest challenge is to plumb the drain, my Tank is about 12 feet away over top of a finished basement from where I would like to put the sump.

[az]

option 2.

[Hookup]

any update?

[fishdaddy]

i would go with #3t,he more water volume that you have the better off you are... a friend and i are building a 20g with a 55g sump and a 10g above tank fuge,if you plum it in to the basement you can all ways get that bigger tank

[Severum]

Go for option 3. Thats what I did.

[xiaan]

any update?

So far the 5G bucket is holding I went away for the weekend and everything seems still ok so I will probably keep it like that for now. This week I will be looking into options 2 or 3  I was looking at upgrading my skimmer in the next month or so so this is a good time to updating my plumbing to incorporate the new skimmer.


I am serisly thinking of option 3 I just have a couple of questions and I am wondering if anyone here has some answers:
What would be the best way to get the overflow lines down there? I have a partially finished basement and the area I would like to put the sump would be about 12 feet away over top of the finished part and I rather not move my display tank right now. Luckily the joist are in my favor as I can reach the tank almost strait across from the tank. I am just worried about crap buildup in the lines. (I am thinking of Spa Fex or PVC)

Should I still have two drain lines or should I combine them? (It would be less work to put one drain)

I have 1/2" ID tubing from my ATO system to the tank could I use this as my return line would that be good enough Or should i put in a new return line?

I am using a Eheim 1250 as my return pump I do not think that is good enough to pump water to the main tank. What return pump would you recommend (Run ~12' Rise ~10')

Any other recommendations for plumbing (other options I should add)? I will probably have unions at key places So I can remove/maintain the system and I am thinking of drilling the sump for a drian for water changes.

[xiaan]

I have been doing some planing on what my system should look like here is a diagram of the system.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[veron]

well, honestly, you have really 2 opptions.
1. replace small sump with small sump and be done with it.

2. if your gonna go thru the trouble of a basement sump, get a BIGGER TANK!
this would be my opption because you can have a kickass sump and have super stable water conditions

[xiaan]

2. if your gonna go thru the trouble of a basement sump, get a BIGGER TANK!
this would be my opption because you can have a kickass sump and have super stable water conditions

I would love to get a bigger tank but right now I do not have the space to put it (I could remove the TV and the sofa and taking down my GF's 55G FW but I know that will not fly with the GF) one of the problems living in a 800 square foot bungalow. my tank size is fine for me right now and I do not really want to disturb it.

[veron]

yeh I understand. [furnitures overrated ]. just replace the sump. no use gooing thru all that work and expence for a 38g

[redbelly]

I still think the 3'x3' cube is the best idea for a new display 

And for the sumps downstairs I might use dual 90g for a total of 180g.

[xiaan]

Over the past few weeks I have been researching different systems. My current system is doing fine with the temp 5G bucket sump but my skimmer is not working that well.

Some things I have settled on:
1. Return pump will be a sequence dart
2. it will use a little pumps as needed (attach my reactors to the return pump) to reduce power consumption
3. it will have a drain in the sump for easy water changes
4. it will have 4 compartments Equipment/Frag/Refuge/Return
5. it needs to upgradable (just in case I get the go ahead for a bigger display tank )
6. it needs to fit in a area of 48x24 (I have build a nice stand that can hold two tanks 48x24 top and 36x24 bottom)
7. the sump can't be over 90G in volume (I am having some humidity issues in my house and I am reducing my tanks down to 2 (55G freshwater and salt system))
8. the main tank will be 11' above the pump
9. Skimmer will be attached to the drain from the main tank.
10. Stand clearance for the bottom tank is 24"
11. Drain lines are 1 1/2"
12. Return lines are 1" and 3/4"

Some things I have to sort out:
1. should I drill on the sides or the bottoms of the tanks.
2. What total volume I will plan on getting? I have right now at my disposal 3 tanks (12G, 40G 50G) and one garbage pail 20G
3. Placement and size of the baffles in the tanks.

This weekend I hope to get the tanks drilled and get the skimmer so I can see if it fits.

I have attached diagrams of two systems I am thinking of going with:
Diagram 1:
This system consists of a 40G 36x18x16 and 50G 36x16x20 Tank
Total water volume: 90G
Pros:
easy access to skimmer and equipment
larger water volume a stabler system
Cons:
larger water volume problems with humidity in house (if I go with this I will get a dehumidifier)
Less workspace area

Diagram 2:
This system consists of a 40G 36x18x16 and 12G 16x16x12 Tank
Total water volume: 52G
Pros:
smaller water volume less water issues
More workspace area (room to put my top off water and Kalk reactor and any other equipment I need)
Cons:
skimmer a little harder to get to.
smaller water volume less stable system.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[rockworm]

my suggestion is to go with Diagram 1.  The larger volume will help stabilize the system.  More importantly, this system will  allow you to upgrade more easily in the future.  I have set my system up to allow for expansion (although I am pretty much at the limit for my house).  I use my return pump with manifolds to supply CA reactor, phosban and carbon reactor.  I also have a few extra outlets on it that I have not hooked anything to yet.

I have three tanks in the basement plumbed together.  One for a fuge, one for sump and third I have not decided on yet (Benthic zone? or more fuge).

[xiaan]

Well It has been allot longer than I thought to get this all done.  So here is the story so far:

After building the stand I started to acquire tanks for the sump my first tank I got was a 40G breeder a really nice size but it had a few problems the bottom pain was cracked and had 2 3/4" holes drilled in the bottom (I thought I could drill these out to 2.5" holes). Then acquired a 50G Hagen tank (36x16x20) it was a nice beefy tank with 3/8" glass and a 30G Breeder (30x18x12). I also had a standard 10G tank and 12G cube tank (16x16x12) lying around.

With all theses tank I was going to have to make a choice on what ones to use. I decided I would not risk using the 40G tank as I do not want to come home one day to +40G of salt water on my basement floor. So now I had a few different tank configurations I could go with. Now I just had to wait for my skimmer to come in to see where it would fit.
After a few weeks I got my skimmer The Reef Octopus Extreme 200 from Ottawa Inverts.


I decided on a system similar to diagram 1 with the 30G on top and the 50G on the bottom. This would allow for the best volume and easy access to the equipment. I would also use the 10G tank for my top off water.

I now started gathering supplies for the tank.
Sequence Dart
40 feet of 1½" spaw flex 
20 feet of 1" spaw flex
Bulkheads and lots of other fittings
Vortech MP40w
Acrylic
Acrylic cutting blade for a table saw
Silicone

A few trips to Ottawa Inverts, BWI Plumbing and Home Depot I had everything.

I also needed to get 4 holes drilled in the tanks. 2 holes in the bottom for the drains in the 30G frag/equipment tank and 2 holes on the side of the 50G for the return pump.
I contacted Snigger (Pat) to drill my tanks but he was unavailable to drill the tanks that week. I was really eager to get this done, so I thought, how hard could drilling a tank be? I watched Pat do it on my display and it did not look all that hard? I decided to order a glass drill bit and watched all the videos on utube of people drilling there tanks. That weekend I practiced on my old cracked 10G tank. First I cracked the tank 2 twice without even getting a hole started then I did 2 more but cracked the tank at the very end. The last hole I did I did not crack the tank. I did not think that 1/5 was a good ratio    so later that week I contacted Pat again about drilling the tank but he was still unavailable to drill. But I found out what I was doing wrong:
1. 10G tanks have very thin glass and it cracks easily,
2. You have to be at least 4" away from the edge of the glass (Read: 10G tanks are hard to drill!)

I figured I only paid $20 for the 30G tank so I would not be out that much if I cracked it. So I tried once again to drill the tank. I went slow, kept it wet and put no pressure on the drill and 1/2 hour later I had done it! I had drilled a perfect hole. Over the next 2 days I successfully drilled 3 more holes  . My drill bit was getting really dull by the last one as it took over 1 hour to drill.

With the holes drilled everything came together quickly. I put the stand in place and lade the Drain and return lines under the floor. I finished the plumbing and installed the acrylic baffles in the sump.

I placed 1 baffle in the 30G tank to separate the Frag area and the equipment area. In the 50G tank I added a bubble trap between the refuge and the drain lines from the 30G (I am glad I did as there are a lot of micro bubbles in that section) and a baffle between the refuge and the return area.

With everything in place I did a leak test (excluding the lines that go upstairs) everything seemed ok. I then added about 30lb of sand to the refuge, 50lb of base rock to the refuge and return area (that I have been curing in a garbage can) and filled the sump with salt water.

I waited for a few days to get the parameters in the sump similar to my display tank. In the meantime I attached one drain line from my main tank to the basement sump (the other one was sill going to the bucket sump) and finished the return to the tank. Last weekend I started to merge the display tank with the basement sump by turning on the basement sump for 1h at a time (like doing a big water change) I did this several times over the weekend and by Sunday night It was running with the basement sump constantly.

Well the tank has been running now for 3 days with out any problems I have finished all my plumbing and took down the 5G bucket installed the reactors and the Auto Top off system. I only have a few things left to do:
1. Tidy up the electrical cords. I just got this to make my life easier:

It is an power bar that you can control each socket individually.
2. Install Aquacontroller Jr connection cable from the basement to the display. The rep said it might work with 12' (it is rated for 10')

Sorry I have not added any photos yet. I do not have that many from the build but I have some nice before and after shots I will post up later today.

[groan]

Where did you find that powerbar?
Great setup so far!