Discussions vr. Classifieds

[Fishnut]

Two questions...

How come the Webmaster will be the only person permitted to alter the website?  I offered to be a moderator and got a similar answer.

So what's the next step in implementing things or making firm decisions?

[washefuzzy]

The webmaster has the ability to change the website but the excutive votes on what is to be changed or not changed.

[RoxyDog]

How come the Webmaster will be the only person permitted to alter the website?  I offered to be a moderator and got a similar answer.

Sorry, I meant that he would be the only one to actually set up anything new, as in we only want one person able to make major changes on the site.  As for moderators, I think we're in the midst of discussing that.

[KLKelly]

You know I just got thinking that maybe those people aren't value added at all and we won't want them posting in the forum part???  Maybe we will have wished they had just stayed in the classifieds?  (if you change the rules to require a minimum post count)

[Tsukiyomi-sakura]

You know I just got thinking that maybe those people aren't value added at all and we won't want them posting in the forum part???  Maybe we will have wished they had just stayed in the classifieds?  (if you change the rules to require a minimum post count)

True, But if they won't put up nice posts in the forum maybe we should look at a fee for posting adds.

[Hookup]

In the great words of great late Dr. Martin Luther King... "I have a DREAM!"  A Dream where the content (discussion) are the priamry reason people come to this site and join the OVAS club.  I dream where the classified ads are truly a secondary feature to this hub of knowledge, sharing, interaction, and story telling.  I have a dream where we all get along in one big happy fish tank (salt of course)...

hehe... Just wanted to add some humor...  This thread is intense...     

[mseguin]

Well I've been pretty busy with work and just got a chance to catch up to this thread. So this may be a bit of a long post and some of it may not be what people want to hear, but bear with me.

- First and foremost, the club and the site are not separate entities. The site is a publication of the Ottawa Valley Aquarium Society, an extension if you will. Sponsors are paying for exposure on the website, but they are not specifically paying for the site. Back in the day, the club sold ad space in the newsletter. This income would go the club, not just to the newsletter. In the same way, income from sponsors is not relegated to paying for the forum, but joins all other sources of income (membership, auctions, etc.), in paying for everything the club provides. I think this is the single biggest misconception about the site/forum.

- There seems to be a few different topics being addressed at the same time, so I'll address each one in turn. First, quality of posts. Sure, there may be 30 classified posts vs 5 discussions, but if you bring those 30 classifieds down to 5, you still only have 5 discussion posts. Your percentage is higher, but you don't have really any more quality on the site. To raise the quality, yoiu need to raise the number of (quality, obviously) discussion posts, not lower the classifieds. This is where you forum users/club members are the most productive. We the executive cannot dictate quality. It's up to you guys to supply or encourage it. I've seen some good ideas in this thread so far to encourage participation, and to that I say go for it. Hookup in particular, you seem to have some good notions for the forum.

- The other large topic of discussion is members vs. non-members. This has been discussed for quite some time in the executive, and will be so for a long time I am quite sure. What frustrates me personally more than people using the classifieds is people who seem to be part of the community, posting frequently, etc, but not willing to pay the 20$ to support the club. The classifieds are one the biggest public aspects of the club, and its bound to attract lots of people, some who will join the club, some who won't. In the end, I believe the access to merchandise, livestock, etc for members is worth the non-members selling their stuff on our site. But if you've gotten as much out of the club as I have, either in sales, purchases, discounts, camaraderie, friendships, etc, is worth encouraging the club whether or not I need something out of it right then. Either the club is worth supporting or its not. But you can't pick and choose which parts you want to support. They are all interconnected and interdependent.

- It isn't just non-members that "abuse" the classifieds. I think the idea of limiting classified posts per day is worth exploring, but for everyone, not just for non-members. That would help with the large segment of posts that are from the same small number of posters. As for the low quality of the items sold, if they don't sell, they won't be posted. If they're being bought, someone wants them. That's why we split up the forums; if you don't feel like reading the classifieds, you can hide them away and read all the other topics you want.

- Most of this club is about what you put into it. If you sit around waiting for the exec to make it fun, there's only so much we can do. I'm glad to see more people get involved, and hope more do so. But you don't need to join the exec to make the club better, be it at the meetings, or the site, or in the community. It's frustrating to see people complain about the way the club is going but do little to improve it.

[mseguin]

I forgot to add something, too often people take a snapshot of the situation and get a bit panicky but fail to properly observe the situation. I have been on the exec for several years now and I can say safely that the club is in a very healthy state. Some members have moved on for a variety of reasons, many of whom I miss interacting with either at the meetings or on the forum. But we still have a very strong membership core that supports this club. We have had a solid lineup of speakers so far this year with more to come, and lots of new and enthusiastic members. Things change, but change is not a reason to get upset. Adapt and grow with the changes, and affect the changes when you can, and accept the ones you can't. Ups and downs will happen no matter what, but if we try to react to all of them we only wind up making things worse.

[Adam]

Good ideas.  If the classifieds are limited to say 1 post a day, it will clean up the multiple postings...this may make people feel better about less classifieds in their view, but the volume will still be there in quantity of goods. 

As for limiting non-members from posting, the volume of ads would decrease significantly and as such, the traffic would decrease as well because less items = less interest. Why come to OVAS for 2-5 new classifieds a day, generally with 2-5 items that don't interest you?  Fewer people visiting the site will mean a dwindling classifieds base. 

How much do the classifieds really drain the site?  It seems as though this really bothers some people, but how much do they take?  $20 of bandwidth?  $100? How many people have come to the site to look at the classifieds and ended up joining (me)?  How many people never heard of the club until they came to the site because they wanted to buy or sell some of their plants?  I would never have known about any of the sponsors other than super pet or big al's until I came to this site.

If you've decided that non-members shouldn't use the classifieds, then don't buy their items and don't sell to them.  Again, no one quite answered my question when I asked how many of you have bought or sold to people with low post counts or to non-members?  A very low percentage I predict.

[dan2x38]

Charlie made a great suggestion of starting a thread for folks to add just their ideas and willingness to volunteer. So I created this thread, 'Enriching OVAS ~ Ideas & Volunteers'. Please just say on topic in that thread. Hope to see just as much enthusiasm there as here.

<edit>

Adam like that but MSeguin would the post a day include bumps? It should! This would encourage folks cleaning-up their own posts. Maybe include a total classified post count for each user so they have to delete old ones before posting new ones i.e. 5 If you still want traffic from classifieds encouraging new members this would work but they would have to know about the change when they logged in.

[Hookup]

Of all of the classified modification ideas presented so far I do kind of like the "you do not meet the min" requirement.  I do cringe when I see someone post 5 listings and their post count is 0...  Personal pet-peeve really.

If I had found ovas via wanting to sell something and was told "you do not meet the min number of posts to use classifieds." I'd go sell on another site, but there's a good enough chance I'd be back at one point wondering what the site that had such a restriction (read exclusivity) was offering.

I'd piss some off for sure, but you cannot make everyone happy.  Sometimes it is simply best to chose a direction and set sale (typo-pun intended) and see what happens, adjust as you go, etc...

Maybe a multi-tiered system could be created... 0-10 posts, you are R/O in the classifieds, 10-50 you are limited to creating no more than 1 thread a day, 50+ open access to clasifieds.  (cause you know, it's easy to implement all this stuff right??? hahahahaha... )

[fischkopp]

Of all of the classified modification ideas presented so far I do kind of like the "you do not meet the min" requirement.  I do cringe when I see someone post 5 listings and their post count is 0...  Personal pet-peeve really.

If I had found ovas via wanting to sell something and was told "you do not meet the min number of posts to use classifieds." I'd go sell on another site, but there's a good enough chance I'd be back at one point wondering what the site that had such a restriction (read exclusivity) was offering.

I'd piss some off for sure, but you cannot make everyone happy.  Sometimes it is simply best to chose a direction and set sale (typo-pun intended) and see what happens, adjust as you go, etc...

Maybe a multi-tiered system could be created... 0-10 posts, you are R/O in the classifieds, 10-50 you are limited to creating no more than 1 thread a day, 50+ open access to clasifieds.  (cause you know, it's easy to implement all this stuff right??? hahahahaha... )

Well put, these are exactly my thoughts. Let the min post count even be as low as 5. The point is, if you just add a simple introduction post you will show that you care and understand that this a living community and not just a blackboard.

[Adam]

Reef Central has a 50 post threshold for classifieds, but it's also a much larger forum. 

I have met many interesting people whenever I have bought or sold anything from the classifieds.  Rarely is the transaction a 'here's your item, here's your money, there's the door'.  Often people stay, sometimes even an hour or two, talking about their fish tanks, looking at your aquariums, discussing ideas.  I'd say this falls under the mission statement of OVAS to promote interest and the exchange of ideas...

[Hookup]

HEY!    Don't get mad at me cause I had to grab and run...  LOL!!!!  Next time I'll come see your setup Adam, promise...

I agree, i've met really nice people thru OVAS.ca

[tandao78]

I dont post much and I was a member then now a non-member.   When I was a member I went to the Giant auction, i did volunteered to help at the Giant Auction but when i arrived and offer my help,  I was brush aside since No one knows me.

I guess i am not a cool enoughz fish guy 

I dont like the idea of having to post before using the classified. 
Please keep in mind that not everyone like to speak their mind or have as much knowleadge as others to contribute.

Why not an opinion poll on this issue?

[RoxyDog]

I apologize if you were turned away or brushed aside when trying to volunteer tandao78, I'm sure it's not b/c we didn't know you but maybe b/c we were busy and/or disorganized, it happens.    I met lots of new people last year, including volunteers and they were all cool b/c they're fish geeks.     Last year's GA had a bit of a problem getting the volunteers organized and I believe there was a PA system crisis about the same time.  We hope to avoid that this year.   

[groupie02]

Sorry folks, I've also been very busy with work this week. There are so many posts in this thread that I'm going to have to re-read all of it before I post any answers.

[groupie02]

You know I just got thinking that maybe those people aren't value added at all and we won't want them posting in the forum part???  Maybe we will have wished they had just stayed in the classifieds?  (if you change the rules to require a minimum post count)

I agree. I was really thinking about the post count thing and that never really stopped anyone from posting fake posts and then get their post in the classifieds. It's just more cleanup for the moderator(s).

Still considering the bigger picture.

[groupie02]

How much do the classifieds really drain the site?  It seems as though this really bothers some people, but how much do they take?  $20 of bandwidth?  $100? How many people have come to the site to look at the classifieds and ended up joining (me)?  How many people never heard of the club until they came to the site because they wanted to buy or sell some of their plants?  I would never have known about any of the sponsors other than super pet or big al's until I came to this site.

we pay a flat fee for our bandwidth... no need to worry about that aspect.  If only I could say the same for MY bandwidth.

[presto]

IDEA 1:

Have bumps be automated. Every 5 days a script checks post date and unless entry is deleted it will bump and add "btt 1, btt 2, ect..." 

It would also remind frequent classified users that they didn't delete there post when it ends up on top.

After each bump send an automated PM to the poster recommending they change there offer by reducing price or adding more value for same price.

IDEA 2:

Limit non-members to one post and charge $1 for each additional post. $20 posts and they might as well be members.