Discussions vr. Classifieds

[fischkopp]

Just one more bit of input from a former member.

http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=33409.0

A thread like that is not uncommon. Notice any members posting in it yet?

What value does your advertising on this site bring in? Do you have the balance sheet split up to know if the site supports club functions or the club has to support the site? Are you considering cutting off your nose to spite your face?

I am not quite sure what this rant exactly means, but I hope I can aid with a little clarification:

Nobody is talking about limiting the website to members only. In fact, this discussion is about encouraging everybody to contribute interestings topic instead of using this site as another online-fleemarket only.

Brine, I see your point and even aggree. But afterall I find the focus of this website should be to present the club locally and to provide an open forum for everyone rather than being just a marketplace.

[kennyman]

I am not quite sure what this rant exactly means, but I hope I can aid with a little clarification:

Nobody is talking about limiting the website to members only. In fact, this discussion is about encouraging everybody to contribute interestings topic instead of using this site as another online-fleemarket only.

Brine, I see your point and even aggree. But afterall I find the focus of this website should be to present the club locally and to provide an open forum for everyone rather than being just a marketplace.

I gave up counting the posts in this thread mentioning limiting classified useage based on membership when I got to 8. I wasn't half way through the thread. And that post was not even close to a rant. It showed you a prime example of how non membership activity drives this forum. That post and many others contain no to very little member participation.
{edit}

Another one is a 4 weeks break period before you are allowed to post in the CF. Being an OVAS member is not essential, although this would be the ultimate solution.

Making the classifieds accessable only to members being the ultimate solution on one hand. Saying noone is talking limiting non member access on the other. 

I'm just saying the exective should continue to concider that non member activity is strongly associated with the success of the site and all that classified junk is just like Brine said. Stuff that goes with it.

[bitterman]

Honestly I don't think limiting classified to members is a good move. If its limited limit it to all users. This will force people to clean up threads and delete sold/dead threads. All users abuse this. People also need to stop thread crapping in classified.. and if you want to make a comment.. delete the message right after you make the comment

A limit of say 10 threads in classified should be more then enough for anyone... I think it could be smaller at say 5 as people can lump ads togther. Once you hit 5 threads started you can't create a new one till one of the other ads is deleted.

Bruce

[dan2x38]

Excellent points...

It is not preventing non card carrying members access to this website. It is about preventing OVAS.CA from being a flea market or garbage dump. When I open up unread messages and less than 20% of the posts are non-classifieds this is an issue. That is a 5 to 1 ratio os sales vr. aquatic discussion?

The card carrying members pay for this website along with the sponsors. This site is not free. Would you open a business and let people who never shop there come by and put flyers up in your store? I do not think so!

I am saying limit the number of posts a non carded member can post in the classifieds. I like the idea of a waiting period before posting in classifieds. I also like the idea that all classified posters are limited the number until they clean up their own posts.

How can anyone miss the point of this thread? It is about encouraging aquatic discussions not promoting sales! Yes we all benefit from the classifieds selling & buying. I use like all of us do. It is the abuse that needs to be curbed.

The quality of this site is dropping there are a lot less members than this time last year. I do not want my money - my $20 going towards paying for someone to come here and sell there stuff without contributing. Check out the post totals on some user you see all the time. There is no post count for classifieds by the way. When I see Zero or 5 posts and see them posting constantly it is obvious their intent here.

So we loss some website hits - big deal they are sellers or browsers only looking for sales. This is an aquarium club not a marketing club. How is that not clear?

As for the 50-75 members attending the meetings we are tha active members. I am not into saltwater but I attended the most expensive speaker the club ever brought in Anthony Calfo. How many folks come out to support speakers not on their topic? Those regular 50-75 members that is who. This is what the club is about expanding our knowledge of aquatic life of all kinds.

Yes seeing a saltwater post regarding equipment is great and what this site is about. Especially when it is not about selling or promoting a product for personal or business gains.

Do you see other non-aquatic clubs allow the websites to be used by others not contributing either financially or content wise? I think not. It is not about money it is about the club, period!

[fischkopp]

{edit} Making the classifieds accessable only to members being the ultimate solution on one hand. Saying noone is talking limiting non member access on the other. 

You got me, bad wording on my side    ultimate = one big reason for a membership? is a good phrase to start a controversy debate, and here we go ...

I meant to emphazise the first part: "Being an OVAS member is not essential, ...", but without giving new users immidiate excess. Many non-members that are around for a while won't have to worry about anything.

Having a CF thread limit is certainly a good idea, but I doubt that the "you can delete yur own thread" message ever reaches the majority of CF only posters ...

[Laura]

While I agree that some of the site content hasn't been as exciting lately, I would link it more to a transition of folks active on the site than people using the classifieds.  We've lost some areas of expertise with people who have moved on which may be impacting some of the discussions, the interpersonal connections and resulting friendly jabs and chit chat.  I suspect that it's part of the natural flow of sites; people come and go - some return and others move onto other things, while new and mostly wonderful interested people show up.

I think what is important is to maintain elements of the club that are important to us and have served us well in accumulating a good range of ages and skill levels.  In my experience it's nearly always been a respectful site (and when it wasn't - the post got deleted).  You would have to push it pretty far to get snapped at, the swearing is kept to a minimum, and it's pretty 'family-friendly'.

Folks signing up on the site is continuing - we've had 39 so far in January, and most of them are at 0 posts - the ones that aren't are for the most part making conversation and contributions to the site - not trolling the classifieds.  There are 10 people who have taken the time to introduce themselves online over the past two months, some with years of experience and specific areas of knowledge. 

I think it would be a mistake to restrict the site further, unless there were cost issues involved with bandwidth and suchlike that we needed to address (which unless I'm wrong was part of the reason in restricting the lounge).  We should be encouraging the new members - that's how we all learn and keep it interesting.  I knew very little when I started out and got some great help and encouragement (and gentle direction) a few years ago.  I've now got my geeky areas that I like reading up and sometimes I can share that and contribute.

That being said, I wouldn't object to Bitterman's suggestion of limiting the number of CF posts one has to force  people to delete their own, but I don't know if it would be a PITA for our webmaster to set up - and since it's a volunteer gig - we shouldn't give him more work.

[Brine]

This is exactly the kind of discussion I like to see....lots of ideas and lots of input. Even if I disagree with some of it

[dan2x38]

Laura says teaching the newcomers maybe this thread is part of that. Maybe when a newcomer joins they are given access to the classifieds after a waiting period. Also have an auto response e-mail with a point form explanation of the forum guidlines including classifieds?

[Laura]

This is exactly the kind of discussion I like to see....lots of ideas and lots of input. Even if I disagree with some of it

I thought you always agreed with everything I said.....

[groupie02]

Just a simple correction.

The card carrying members pay for this website along with the sponsors. This site is not free. Would you open a business and let people who never shop there come by and put flyers up in your store? I do not think so!

Only sponsors are paying for the web site. The membership fees go to the club.

[Brine]

I thought you always agreed with everything I said.....

hahahahahaah.....oops I think I pee'd myself 

[groupie02]

I've read this thread from beginning to end. There are a lot of good ideas and suggestions.

Unfortunately, a lot of the good ideas are really hard to implement. The only easy solution is to limit posts in the classifieds to site members who have more than X posts. This can be done in minutes and will most likely be implemented in the near future but I will do some more research first.

Thanks everyone.

[Hookup]

I'm a non-member.  But I do frequent these forums, for salt-water anyhow.  I know this is "your club" and therefore you can and should as a collective group take this wherever meets your needs and goals, but I wanted to comment, as an outsider, who just read the thread....

  I gotta tell ya, I was hit pretty hard that the majority of ideas for improving the web are to remove or limit content (even CF is content).  I do not see that anything good can come of this. 

  Why are we not talking about what can be added or increased?  For example, why do we not have someone calling out for articles & authors to create polished static (or sticky) content and associated discussions?  Why not link to other sights such as www.reefkeeping.com each month and have our own discussion threads on those linked topics?  Why not host our own tank of the month section/forum and have the winner post a quick, or long, article on their system?

  Just look at what the photo-contest does, and now look at what it could be.  Instead of "thank you win" it could be a requirement to discuss your photo, or your fish, or your experience, or something, as the winner.

  Is the problem really that the CF are being used or is it more to the origional posters point that 83% of the content is CF?   Instead of decreasing overall volume of posts why are we not trying to increase the "good" content and the the CF work themselves out.  A healthy functioning CF will always draw in more people to the site, which in turn will get some percentage of those posting, again in turn will generate more OVAS memberships.

Just some suggestions and observations from the outside.  (honest, I had to test to see if I was even allowed to post here.. never tried before, and thanks... because I am glad to have voiced my POV, whatever it's worth...  )

[kennyman]

Just a simple correction.

Only sponsors are paying for the web site. The membership fees go to the club.

Thanks for explaing that. It was a key component to the point I was trying to get across. The non-member activity draws the sponsors which contributes greatly to the operation of the site and benefits the club propper. That was the whole bit about cutting off ones nose  

[beowulf]

Thanks for explaing that. It was a key component to the point I was trying to get across. The non-member activity draws the sponsors which contributes greatly to the operation of the site and benefits the club propper. That was the whole bit about cutting off ones nose  

Et Voila!!

[charlie]

Thanks for explaing that. It was a key component to the point I was trying to get across. The non-member activity draws the sponsors which contributes greatly to the operation of the site and benefits the club propper. That was the whole bit about cutting off ones nose  

On the flip  side it can also be the reason why the mind set of some folks could be  " why do need to join a club, the sponsors pay for me to be here" 
I think the whole point of the OP, is pointing out that the revered classifieds has become the focal point of the site /club( the site is a face of the club) instead of the the sharing of knowledge etc.



The farmer that slaughter his only dairy cow for the beef, will have to buy his milk

[charlie]

Here is more food for discussion, is it possible that if the club allows the classifieds to continue on it`s rapid success, would that not contradict or impede the purpose of the sponsors been here? To add some insight before we get the technical explanations , the club might have already suffered from that rational in the past, if memory serves me right it happened before.

[RoxyDog]

Just a simple correction.

Only sponsors are paying for the web site. The membership fees go to the club.

True true.  But no matter what any says the website and the club are linked.    We don't keep membership money and sponsorship money separate from each other, it all goes together to pay for everything.  So decisions made about the website are decisions made about the club and vice versa.  Each one affects the other, when you dicuss one you discuss the other (more or less).  When you support one, you support the other.  And if we have to make a decision about the website for what we believe is the good of the club, then we will.  I don't think limiting posting is the best idea per say, but I do think ,as this thread has said, that making the site more about conversation rather than buying and selling can only be a positive thing.  This discussion has been good, thanks everyone.  (I'm tired I hope this isn't a useles ramble  )

[Crumpet]

I think Hookup made some great suggestions on encouraging discussion   I really like the idea of the photo winners getting the chance to talk about their fish, set-up, and photography skillz.  I'm all about the positive rather than limits/restrictions as a means of solving problems. I also agree with Laura that like the sea (look out -- going to wax poetic now lol) there is an ebb and flow to clubs -- old members leave, new ones come in.

I will share my experience, though.  I understand the need to limit the lounge to members only, but I will say that when I first came to OVAS it was that forum that coaxed me out of my shell.  I'm actually quite shy, and was worried that the super serious fish people would mock me and my wee goldfish if I introduced myself through posts in the freshwater discussions.  After I got to meet some of the personalities through the lounge topics, I felt "safer" talking in the other forums, and I purchased a membership because I really valued the fellowship in the club along with the fantastic information. 

[RoxyDog]

After I got to meet some of the personalities through the lounge topics, I felt "safer" talking in the other forums, and I purchased a membership because I really valued the fellowship in the club along with the fantastic information. 

And that is what this club is about, or I hope so anyway.    And that's why I think the website and the club are interconnected and that they should be.  AND that restricting isn't the way to go - but also we should be offering something to the people who are willing to put down their dollars to support the club (I feel the rock on one side and the hard place on the otherr ).   And it's also why I wonder why so many regulars that frequent the site don't buy memberships.  Anyone out there have a thought...?  I don't see us ever forcing website users to buy a membership, but WHY do so many not...?