Discussions vr. Classifieds

[FishPassion]

Having been an OVAS member for a number of years I have watched read and posted  threads on this site. The site as grown considerably and executive commitees come and go with different views on how to improve the site. This is a non-moderated site and in my opinion is heavy in classified traffic due to the fact that "discussion" threads in my opinion are not supported by the experienced hobbiests anymore. I have discussed this in person with numerous members and there is a lot of information being given by some that are new to the hobby that is not always correct. Many older members dont post anymore due to the fact that "why bother" most dont listen anyways and wonder two weeks down the road why did it die. After being almost silent for a year I  started posting recently mostly due to the fact that there was so much misinformation being given and taken by members that I figured I would try again. I really dont see many of the knowledgeable execs or sponsors posting either, has this site has turned out to be a selfgoverning discussion forum?

So yes the classifieds are outweighing the discussions, and in my opinion many will search sites that have a heavier seasoned hobbiest discussion forum for answers.

These are my opinions only...

[beowulf]

Having been an OVAS member for a number of years I have watched read and posted  threads on this site. The site as grown considerably and executive commitees come and go with different views on how to improve the site. This is a non-moderated site and in my opinion is heavy in classified traffic due to the fact that "discussion" threads in my opinion are not supported by the experienced hobbiests anymore. I have discussed this in person with numerous members and there is a lot of information being given by some that are new to the hobby that is not always correct. Many older members dont post anymore due to the fact that "why bother" most dont listen anyways and wonder two weeks down the road why did it die. After being almost silent for a year I  started posting recently mostly due to the fact that there was so much misinformation being given and taken by members that I figured I would try again. I really dont see many of the knowledgeable execs or sponsors posting either, has this site has turned out to be a selfgoverning discussion forum?

So yes the classifieds are outweighing the discussions, and in my opinion many will search sites that have a heavier seasoned hobbiest discussion forum for answers.

These are my opinions only...

Agreed with you back then and still do today.  Still miss your, and the other more experienced members, point of view.

[KLKelly]

Fishpassion I agree with you 100%.  I might be one of those posters giving misinformation because many of the experts no longer post.  Sponsors never post.  This is something I don't understand.

I've struggled with my saltwater nano and honestly we've given up on having a beautiful tank.  Its pretty pathetic.  No one can tell us why we are having the trouble we are having.  If it weren't for the clownfish I'm attached to I'd of torn it down and given it away for free and gotten out of SW completely.  

Even if its more active not just advice wise it would be more fun here.  I bet there are a whole lot of ideas on how to liven up this place.

[fischkopp]

I also think that a bit more moderation would help to make this site more attractive. I am not looking to put more work an the executive: the moderator can be anyone (not everybody though ) who frequents this site quite a bit. I think it even makes sense to have more a small group of moderators + webmaster, each one could focus on a certain forum section. We should also find a way to publish additional content and make very useful information readily available so they do not get lost on page x in the forum. I think the forum in its present day was introduced about 3 years ago - I would guess that the extra content added at that time made the site more interesting, yes there isn't too much going on at the moment ...

We also need to think about what the website shall be. In my opinion, it should not be run as separate entity, it is the community behind it that makes this site. It is the fact that you actually know the people you meet online, or have the chance to get to know them. Beside the local connection it also allows us to reach and be reached by other fish geeks that may be in toronto, montreal ... We don't need to try to build up another international forum, I think there are enough out there. The connection to the local community of fish geek should make this site interesting. And ovas as a club provides the body and some extra fun activity to keep all of us excited about it. That's just the way I see it.

[Pamelajo]

Hi I am one of the "non club members" that has used the classifieds recently.  I have been a member since 2005 and have not posted much.  More reading, when I have the time.  
If you limit or ban Non club members from posting in the classifieds then people like me who are "looking for" something specific may not be able to post there.

[FishPassion]

I remember a few years ago discussing the sites growth and potential with some of the execs at the time. My point at that time was yes the site is growing by leaps and bounds but, how are you going to keep that spark, interest alive. Think of it as a manufacturing plant and your selling product, Your salespeople have left and the your new products are stuck on a shelf not being merchandised properly. Yes the site has grown in leaps and bounds but can also start a rapid decline if not "merchandized" properly, I have said this for years and still stand by it.

[RoxyDog]

I am suggesting that to create a positive image for the web-site, which is owned and managed, and maintained by the club, we the club members need to do positive things.

Yep.  I agree.  If you have great ideas, or want to see something implemeted, step up!   Don't have time perhaps?  Like charlie said, we're all volunteeers here, not all of us have lots of time (I have lots of net surfing time during the day  ) but we do what we can.  Don't just give your idea and then sit back and wait for the Exec to get it going.  We need help too.  If people are bored then get something going!  I get bored of reading the same old thing all the time too so sometimes I post sometimes I don't.  But I'm not the one complaining here. 

Many older members dont post anymore due to the fact that "why bother" most dont listen anyways and wonder two weeks down the road why did it die.

Yessir!  And BTW glad to see you back to posting my dear (this evil man got me into reefing  ).    I know a lot of people get annoyed and bored with posting the same things to newbies over and over again, I certainly do - especially when they don't listen!  It's frustrating to see people pop on with a question they could have Googled, or god forbid, read in a book!  BUT I don't think any of us mind helping someone who really needs it.  Someone who is trying and genuinely cares about what they're doing.

I can't stress enough that if you all want something to change, be more fun, be better that you HAVE TO PARTICIPATE!  In this discussion, in meetings, etc.  Like I said, we tried to have a costume contest, who participated?  Execs did and we weren't even allowed to have the prizes!  lol  Fishnut I remember you did.    How about the bowl show?  3 people?  The homeshow?  That wasn't too bad, was it 6 people, I don't remember exactly.  All of these ideas about photo contest, the thing Fishnut offered, etc, help us implement them.  We only have one webmaster, he's the only one who's gonna ever be allowed to change the site, but he's a good easy going guy and I bet he'd be willing to do stuff if someone organized it all out for him to get done.  Or things @ meetings, you wanna try something new?  Awesome!  Bring it on! 

Again, I just don't believe this website is or should be a separate entity from OVAS as a club.  It maybe was supposed to be, or started out that way, but it's not anymore.  If it is, then go nuts and do whatever you want b/c as an OVAS Exec I'm not responsible for anything on it.     That's sarcasm b/c of COURSE I'd never say that.  You can approach any one of the current Execs, they are ALL approachable people.  Talk to me, I like to talk.  hehe     We're never going to shoot you down outright.  Ever.  It might not always be something we can do, but I guarantee we're going to listen.  But remember two things, I've said them before and will repeat them again:  If you want to see something done, then help us do it.  HELP US.  And if you want to help OVAS and be a part of it, buy a membership.  No, not b/c of the money it gives us, b/c you're committing to being a part of our group that we strive SO HARD to make good for our MEMBERS.  For those who are not members but want so see things change, or have ideas, put down your $20 that says to me "I'm willing to step up and give you my hard earned dollars to be a part of this club. I'm willing to support what you're trying to do here."  Then when *I* or someone else messes up on the Exec, or doesn't keep up, you get to hold out your card and say you're a paying member and that I have a responsibilty to YOU to do the job I volunteered for.  I sit here as your VP, supposed to be the "second in command", but that doesn't mean I know how to do stuff.  It means I volunteered my time b/c I'm willing to try.

[Hookup]

I am willing to put in time to evolving these ideas and maintaining them.  I need input from the exec and fellow-members as to what ideas should be tackled first, however here's my proposed list;

1) Monthly Hot-Threads notice - each month several hot-topic threads are identified, briefly summarized and posted in a news-bulletin style announcement.  This is an effort to draw attention to the "good" content on the site.  A special global thread or something could store all of the "hot-threads" so the concepts are kept visible and do not float-off into the abyss over time.  I would like to see a button added to allow anyone to noniminate a thread if that is possible... details are just that, and can be worked later.

2) Articles - People who want to write articles can send content which can be reviewed, polished and published, including an associated discussion thread in a new Forum titled "articles".  I would be willing to organize the ideas, promote and request articles, including asking sponsors for their input on articles.  Also, a refresh of articles needs to be done as many of them are older and should be validated, and re-published.  I would be willing to write several articles as well, and I'm sure others would too.  Those "old timers" who get tired of saying the same thing over and over... this is a chance to put your money where your mouth is...

3) OVAS news letter - This might already exist, as a non-member I did not receive it or did not notice it.  This should exist and draw more attention to the club and it's activities...  Maybe this is combined with the other two ideas.  It could include a summary of the prior months presenter, upcoming events, some short content on something fishy, and so fourth.  Maybe this is monthly or quarterly, who knows at this point.  Over time this could evolve to a full mailed-out letter with advertisements from sponsors covering some or all of the costs.  This might require additional help, but it's an idea.

These ideas are relatively simple to admin and I would be more than willing to do that if the direction is supported.  I'm open to other suggestions as well... Bring them on, i've can make the time available for this if it is where we want to go.  (I can say we now.. i paid up this morning  )

[charlie]

I remember a few years ago discussing the sites growth and potential with some of the execs at the time. My point at that time was yes the site is growing by leaps and bounds but, how are you going to keep that spark, interest alive. Think of it as a manufacturing plant and your selling product, Your salespeople have left and the your new products are stuck on a shelf not being merchandised properly. Yes the site has grown in leaps and bounds but can also start a rapid decline if not "merchandized" properly, I have said this for years and still stand by it.

we better start listening, because he stands by it with a big stick  , thanks for lending your wisdom 

[ray]

The classifieds in a way do follow your mandate of promoting fish keeping by allowing people to enter the hobby who may not other wise be inclined due to cost.also once they are viewing the site they may be more apt to join ovas and participate.
Perhaps a a better marketing of Ovas itself on the site will encourage more people to join and participate.Just my 2 cents

Ray

[charlie]

I think i`ve read everything on this thread a few times, in my opinion there seems  to be a 2 things that most agree needs addressing,
(1) the beneficial discussions of the hobby needs to be revamped ( Hookup takes the trophy here  )
(2) the drop in classified users ( Hi & Bye , no thanks)  & the non contributing bargin seekers needs to be controlled , in that regard one of the best solutions i see is the post count qualifier, since i don`t see them ( hi ,bye & barging hunters) as any benefit the the club or sponsors.
Just my view

[dan2x38]

Wow! And Holy crap go to sleep and then I have to read... this is what I am talking about. In case no one new heard me WOW!

OK Hookup you put your foot in it now... LOL Oh by the way I have not found any of your posts harsh just honest and to the point. We are calling people out so why shouldn't you. Oh and by the way welcome aboard nice to see another member.

It is great seeing some old members - not a dig at age - like FishPassion add their opinion's I respect them. Oh you better listen to FishPassion his ID does not reflect his RT image!

Hookup love the ideas. Take one or two easier ones to implement by setting out a mission statement then present them to the exec. I think the 1st one having an open forum at the meeting get people's ideas who might have missed this thread also a lot of reading to catch up on. Secondly take one of the contest or article ideas something that involves people to participate in good start. Oops number three get sponsors involved more than posting what is new in store. Maybe them having a monthly/weekly article: new product, new hobby concept, new fish/plant/coral discovered available to the hobby, etc.

Have a 2nd tier of non-voting execs. appointed by individual chairs or voted in or hand raising selection. They could help with the newsletter, articles, contest/s, product/fish/coral/plant of the month, etc, etc, etc. Like you Hookup I have time on my hands stuck at home on disability. I was on the exec but had to quit due to time & health reasons. I am a manager for minor hockey for my son's team so my free time was prioritized for him. The season is coming to an end in Apr. so will be more available. So I am saying I would help you, the exec. and the club... LMK

Beowulf glad we got that clarified. All along I am talking about limiting classified abusers. Even with a limit it can be displayed in the classifieds clearly you can reply to a seller by PM. If granted 5 posts a week/month they learn to use wisely I guess. OH just a thought...

I never thought posting this thread would bring so much positive discussion but I am happy to see it is contruction and has not turned into a mud slinging contest getting it locked. Way to go guys this is what OVAS is all about. It shows me this club is needed and wanted and it will prospur Hell or High water.

Another point the exec or behind the scenes club work that keeps things a float needs to be more transparent. Then constantly promoted so people get use to it. Hold the meetings at community centre, Church basement that is very cheap rent. City sites for non-profits are very cheap for a room around $8/hr even less depending on the availability. There are only 10 meetings a year. But when they are held at exec's homes people might not be comfortable going there especially if they have never met them. Anyone can attend an exec. meeting but if they are held in let's say Barrhaven those traveling by bus or not able to afford extra gas would not attend. If at a central location they would consider attending then getting involved but it would need to be promoted and ppl encouraged - constantly. Then it would be easy to get co-chairs to help with extra events for the club.

OK-OK finally the website and club are one not separate entities. Which they are! OK remeber now take a breath... 

[beowulf]

OK-OK finally the website and club are one not separate entities. Which they are! OK remeber now take a breath... 

And the worst part is that I remember from my short time on the executive, so much time was spend arguing this point with the former APW wanting them to remain seperate.....times they do change and we are now back to the same point!!

[Anja]

*phew* Just read my way through all the posts. Good to see some life here. ;o) Thanks Dan.

Here's my 2 cents (forgive me for not remembering who said what)

> It is about preventing OVAS.CA from being a flea market or garbage
> dump. When I open up unread messages and less than 20% of the posts
> are non-classifieds this is an issue. That is a 5 to 1 ratio os sales
> vr. aquatic discussion?

I like flea markets, and one man's garbage is another man's treasure. I do agree, however that there should be more discussion going on, I just don't think restricting the classified's is the way to do that. The ratio might look better, but only because the classifieds go down, not because the dicussions go up.

> This site is not free. Would you open a business and let people who
> never shop there come by and put flyers up in your store? I do not
> think so!

But is that a valid comparison? Correct me if I'm wrong; we didn't set up the site to sell membership (and I do think it's potential for promotion is not being used).
The site would be there anyway and paid for by us, if there were no non-members on it. Having non-members on the site doesn't cost us more. I don't see the problem.

> I also like the idea that all classified posters are limited the
> number until they clean up their own posts.

That clean-up thingy sounds like a good idea. If it's impossible to technically implement, how about an automatic delete of posts that are older than ...? (1 week, 1 month, sth like that?)

> Yes we all benefit from the classifieds selling & buying. I use like
> all of us do. It is the abuse that needs to be curbed.

I agree, if abuse means cheating and lying over a deal. I don't agree if abuse means using the classifieds as what they're meant to be - classifieds. I don't see a problem in people using the classifieds but not the rest of the site. Excluding them won't make the rest of the sit better or the other discussions any livelier. I just don't see how classifieds-exclusive-users hurt anyone.

> The quality of this site is dropping there are a lot less members than
> this time last year.

But is that the fault of the classifieds? I highly doubt it. Unfortunately neither opinion can be proven without a test that might take this site and OVAS a long time to recuperate from.

> I do not want my money - my $20 going towards paying for someone to
> come here and sell there stuff without contributing.

Actually, I don't mind. I pay my $20 to support the club. If anyone else benefits from that, it only makes the world a better place, it's no hide off my back.

> This is an aquarium club not a marketing club. How is that not clear?

I don't think that not being clear is the problem. The issue is, how do we make the club part better. I don't believe cutting anyone off is going to raise contributions. Starting something new (qed by this thread) is the way to go.

> articles & authors ... and associated
> discussions? 
> discussion threads on those linked topics?
> tank of the month section/forum ... article on their system?
> [opportunity] to discuss your photo ... as the winner.
...
> A healthy functioning CF will always draw in more people to the site,
> which in turn will get some percentage of those posting, again in turn
> will generate more OVAS memberships.

I like those ideas and second the conclusion.

> but also we should be offering something to the people who are willing
> to put down their dollars to support the club

I really liked the idea of workshops for members. In any case, I'd make it something additional, not take something away for non-members. (Maybe start a lounge post of what people would like that's within our budget and manpower?)

Or an 'ask the expert' section on the website.

> I don't see us ever forcing website users to buy a membership, but WHY
> do so many not...?   Huh

For one, I would make it easier to pay. Don't make people search for the membership section, put a button in the header that shows up on every page that reads "Support your club - buy your membership now". That button should be clickable and take you directly to paypal (or *one* intermediate information site if that is required by law). Support impulse buys. ;o)

Or a "donate to the website" button for people who don't have $20 (it happens), with a little donation halo appearing on their profile for a while.

> If you charge for access to this site the site will fail. There are
> numerous free-access sites available and people will migrate.

Very true. And some of those free-access sites are really excellent. We should go look for ideas there rather than risk emmigration.

> Perhaps introduce some kind of fun learning system where paid members
> can work towards achieving experience status within the club
...
> Once the points has been reached, that person will be awarded with a
> certificate and a prize at a meeting for their accomplishment as a
> "skillful OVAS cichlid keeper" (for example) and get a new little icon
> in the star line on the web page.  If someone achieves this
> certificate in all categories, then we can make up a very special name
> for that accomplishment, give a certificate, maybe a bigger prize and
> make a big deal about it at the meeting. 

Sounds like an excellent idea to me. I think AC has something like that, where users can give other users points or credit for helpful answers. I wouldn't even limit that (at least not the web-related part) to members, but include non-members and hold out a membership card as a reward for so many points. Positive reinforcement so to speak. ;o)

But I also like the meeting part.

> All of these ideas ... help us implement them.  We only have one
> webmaster, he's the only one who's gonna ever be allowed to change the
> site, but he's a good easy going guy and I bet he'd be willing to do
> stuff if someone organized it all out for him to get done.

I'd like to get more involved. Being carless, I'd appreciate the opportunity to get involved online like this, where I don't have to bus for an hour or more or beg a ride. (I'd find it hard to get to exec meetings, e.g.) I'm no programmer, but I do have some creative juices (and am not utterly computer illiterate).

> OVAS news letter

I started in the hobby barely a year ago, so wouldn't trust myself to write an expert article, but I can certainly contribute something like a  squib/gloss/comment now and then, sth. funny, sth. I learned the hard way, sth I read in the news or some such like? If that would be wanted?

Sorry, that got to be a little longer than I anticipated. I'll pipe down now. ;o)

[dan2x38]

> This site is not free. Would you open a business and let people who
> never shop there come by and put flyers up in your store? I do not
> think so!

But is that a valid comparison? Correct me if I'm wrong; we didn't set up the site to sell membership (and I do think it's potential for promotion is not being used).
The site would be there anyway and paid for by us, if there were no non-members on it. Having non-members on the site doesn't cost us more. I don't see the problem.

Anja wow you read it all in one sitting... LOL It is hard to follow each point and remember the point at the end of this. Above I was eluding to sponsors potentially losing business by encouraging or allowing abuse of the classifieds. The abuse is when that is all people do here with out contributing.

[Anja]

> Anja wow you read it all in one sitting... LOL It is hard to follow each point and remember the point at the end
> of this.

Sorry, I tried to be relevant in my quotes. I hope I'll be able to follow more closely now. 

> Above I was eluding to sponsors potentially losing business by encouraging or allowing abuse of the classifieds.

I think s.o already made the point, if banned (or curbed) here, peeps would just sell their stuff somewhere else, so banning wouldn't put more money towards sponsors.

> The abuse is when that is all people do here with out contributing.

My dictionary defines abuse as: "change the inherent purpose or function of something" . They're classifieds. Their inherent purpose is private advertising. That's what people use them for. What am I not seeing?

[beowulf]

I was thinking re. content, maybe the monthly photo contest should have a theme and then people vote about if it meets that need, ie "Friends"  so the picture has to have something like 2+ fish swimming together.  "David and Goliath" - a small fish and a large fish in the same picture.  Just another idea to spice things up.

[charlie]

Wow , i`m exhausted, Dan now comes the real part, you should start a volunteer thread so the good folks can indicate their willingness to help execute some of the good ideas here, that way if the exec. would like to implement any of it  they would have a good resource pool to draw from.

[washefuzzy]

*phew* Just read my way through all the posts. Good to see some life here. ;o) Thanks Dan.

Here's my 2 cents (forgive me for not remembering who said what)

> It is about preventing OVAS.CA from being a flea market or garbage
> dump. When I open up unread messages and less than 20% of the posts
> are non-classifieds this is an issue. That is a 5 to 1 ratio os sales
> vr. aquatic discussion?

I like flea markets, and one man's garbage is another man's treasure. I do agree, however that there should be more discussion going on, I just don't think restricting the classified's is the way to do that. The ratio might look better, but only because the classifieds go down, not because the dicussions go up.

> This site is not free. Would you open a business and let people who
> never shop there come by and put flyers up in your store? I do not
> think so!

But is that a valid comparison? Correct me if I'm wrong; we didn't set up the site to sell membership (and I do think it's potential for promotion is not being used).
The site would be there anyway and paid for by us, if there were no non-members on it. Having non-members on the site doesn't cost us more. I don't see the problem.

> I also like the idea that all classified posters are limited the
> number until they clean up their own posts.

That clean-up thingy sounds like a good idea. If it's impossible to technically implement, how about an automatic delete of posts that are older than ...? (1 week, 1 month, sth like that?)

> Yes we all benefit from the classifieds selling & buying. I use like
> all of us do. It is the abuse that needs to be curbed.

I agree, if abuse means cheating and lying over a deal. I don't agree if abuse means using the classifieds as what they're meant to be - classifieds. I don't see a problem in people using the classifieds but not the rest of the site. Excluding them won't make the rest of the sit better or the other discussions any livelier. I just don't see how classifieds-exclusive-users hurt anyone.

> The quality of this site is dropping there are a lot less members than
> this time last year.

But is that the fault of the classifieds? I highly doubt it. Unfortunately neither opinion can be proven without a test that might take this site and OVAS a long time to recuperate from.

> I do not want my money - my $20 going towards paying for someone to
> come here and sell there stuff without contributing.

Actually, I don't mind. I pay my $20 to support the club. If anyone else benefits from that, it only makes the world a better place, it's no hide off my back.

> This is an aquarium club not a marketing club. How is that not clear?

I don't think that not being clear is the problem. The issue is, how do we make the club part better. I don't believe cutting anyone off is going to raise contributions. Starting something new (qed by this thread) is the way to go.

> articles & authors ... and associated
> discussions? 
> discussion threads on those linked topics?
> tank of the month section/forum ... article on their system?
> [opportunity] to discuss your photo ... as the winner.
...
> A healthy functioning CF will always draw in more people to the site,
> which in turn will get some percentage of those posting, again in turn
> will generate more OVAS memberships.

I like those ideas and second the conclusion.

> but also we should be offering something to the people who are willing
> to put down their dollars to support the club

I really liked the idea of workshops for members. In any case, I'd make it something additional, not take something away for non-members. (Maybe start a lounge post of what people would like that's within our budget and manpower?)

Or an 'ask the expert' section on the website.

> I don't see us ever forcing website users to buy a membership, but WHY
> do so many not...?   Huh

For one, I would make it easier to pay. Don't make people search for the membership section, put a button in the header that shows up on every page that reads "Support your club - buy your membership now". That button should be clickable and take you directly to paypal (or *one* intermediate information site if that is required by law). Support impulse buys. ;o)

Or a "donate to the website" button for people who don't have $20 (it happens), with a little donation halo appearing on their profile for a while.

> If you charge for access to this site the site will fail. There are
> numerous free-access sites available and people will migrate.

Very true. And some of those free-access sites are really excellent. We should go look for ideas there rather than risk emmigration.

> Perhaps introduce some kind of fun learning system where paid members
> can work towards achieving experience status within the club
...
> Once the points has been reached, that person will be awarded with a
> certificate and a prize at a meeting for their accomplishment as a
> "skillful OVAS cichlid keeper" (for example) and get a new little icon
> in the star line on the web page.  If someone achieves this
> certificate in all categories, then we can make up a very special name
> for that accomplishment, give a certificate, maybe a bigger prize and
> make a big deal about it at the meeting. 

Sounds like an excellent idea to me. I think AC has something like that, where users can give other users points or credit for helpful answers. I wouldn't even limit that (at least not the web-related part) to members, but include non-members and hold out a membership card as a reward for so many points. Positive reinforcement so to speak. ;o)

But I also like the meeting part.

> All of these ideas ... help us implement them.  We only have one
> webmaster, he's the only one who's gonna ever be allowed to change the
> site, but he's a good easy going guy and I bet he'd be willing to do
> stuff if someone organized it all out for him to get done.

I'd like to get more involved. Being carless, I'd appreciate the opportunity to get involved online like this, where I don't have to bus for an hour or more or beg a ride. (I'd find it hard to get to exec meetings, e.g.) I'm no programmer, but I do have some creative juices (and am not utterly computer illiterate).

> OVAS news letter

I started in the hobby barely a year ago, so wouldn't trust myself to write an expert article, but I can certainly contribute something like a  squib/gloss/comment now and then, sth. funny, sth. I learned the hard way, sth I read in the news or some such like? If that would be wanted?

Sorry, that got to be a little longer than I anticipated. I'll pipe down now. ;o)

All good Anja! I like what you had to say. I could actually agree with you.

[Tsukiyomi-sakura]

Don't know if this was mentioned because i only read the first page but what about having a min post count before posting in classifieds?

edit: just read half of it, and what if Frequent posters who don't contribute to the actual club Must start to Or be charged for posting an add, lets say 1.00 for example, people who then just want to sell stuff would help bring in revenue for the site, or be discouraged by the 1.00 posting fee and start posting in the forums more.

Also, Maybe a Members only classified(aside from the regular one) would be good to bring up members, Because someone may see the members posting better items for sale and want to get in on it.

Also maybe it's time to make a thread for common prices on items and fish (lets say we put yellow tang and the sizes then put what normally we end up paying for it ie. SM YT:30-40$) so we can delete really old adds and clean up the site and get more posting space.