My 180g, 4 sided viewable project thread

[PMurphy]

is it in yet?

[Snider82]

can u tease us with a pic of the packaging?

[Hookup]

There is an issue...

I got a call, saying I needed to come and check things out... So I left work early to go see the tank... There are three issues...

1) Black Silllycone was used, not clear... though I did not specify, and the black looks good... so its not really an issue... just a lack of communication on my part.
2) 13 holes requested... 12 drilled...   I've got to run thru the design to see the impact, if any... I do not anticipate any issues with this, just a minor disappointment.
3) The Eurobracing is done out of regular glass... not starfire like the rest of the tank... meaning you see a 1/2" of green-glass at the top... That one really bugs me.

Because I left from work I did not have a camera... Photos will be taken soon... but at this point I'm waiting for feedback from the builder when they get in tomorrow and read the email which as sent.

The disappointment is the issue... everything else is easily fixable... well maybe not the 13 holes vs 12 holes... not easily.. but the eurobracing should be a no brainer.

On the PLUS... I can do the following

* Stand can be built!  The tank is 72.125 long by 24.5 tall by 25.25 wide.. exterior size... therefore I can open walls and build a stand.
* The hole pattern can be traced onto a piece of wood and the DIY rock can be built! (assuming the 12 vs 13 isn't an issue)

As well the ATI powermodule should be here this weekend... YEAH!  So I can get to work on that as well, getting the lighting installed!

So as much as this is disappointing... it's progress...

[Cheebs]

Bummer about the bumps in the road, but it'll turn out great. Can't wait to see it!

[Snider82]

Im glad you can see the bright side of things.  im sure things will work out for hte best in the end.   good luck with the build / renovation!!

[Tyler.L]

i would return it if i were you lol

maybe the 13 holes structurally wouldnt work out and thats why they did 12?

...black silicone imo is better than clear...its got a nice crisp line and looks dope!

the starphire is defintly a pain in the ass....they should knock off a few dollars for that and the extra hole...but im sure you will work around it Tim and that light is gonna be INTENSE!!!!!!!!!

[sdivell]

I agree that the disappointment on your point should be worth a few dollars coming back your way.  If they said they would build it one way for X amount and didn't deliver they should lose 'some' of their profit that they no doubt made on that tank. BUT just my opinion, lets hope the builder runs his/her company with the same ethics.

I really look forward to seeing the tank come together Tim.  Good luck! hopefully that is the end of the '13' curse the tank has.

[Hookup]

Cool Pat just called me and my tank has also arrived 

BTW, got to have a look at your tank... I'm sure you'll be impressed... A wonderful looking system, really... it's a dream... BTW, where's the build thread?

[Contains Moose]

So which hole is missing?

[Hookup]

So which hole is missing?

the 13th one... duh...

by the diagram... the second Closed-Loop, it's input-line..(to the pump)...  Changing that from a 1 in and 4 out, to a  1 in 3 out solves the "issue" in theory...  I need to play with the model a bit more and ensure its going to work effectively...  For "turbulent" flow I wanted 4 zones (outputs) on the Oceans Motions 4-way... For the mass-motion closed loop I had 4 outputs, I guess I can look at going to 3 at this point... or splitting one of the 3 inside the tank...

[xiaan]

BTW, got to have a look at your tank... I'm sure you'll be impressed... A wonderful looking system, really... it's a dream... BTW, where's the build thread?

I have not had time to take some photos but besides get the stand and order the tank I have not done much I will probably start one when I get the tank.

[Hookup]

An update on the "issues"... at this point there is finger pointing going on... who said what to do when and why... no one is taking the responsiblity for the 13th hole... No clear documentation or paper trail has been produced to clarify the situation either... I'm having an angry day... The builder is not being very flexible, from my point of view... of course from theirs, they do not have to be and anything they are offering is going above and beyond...

Finding the middle ground will be a challange.

[RossW]

What about the eurobracing?

[Hookup]

Eurobracing is a pretty clear issue.  I did not specify that it should be in starfire.  They did not think to ask.  They are willing to cover the labour of the reinstall, however, they are not willing to cover shipping or the cost of the parts.   The issue of the 12 vs 13 holes right now is about assigning blame, which I guess is the first step in resolving it.

[Cheebs]

Had you originally said 12 holes then changed your mind? Otherwise, if you had said 13 all along I don't see how the blame could be on you at all...

[Canoe]

...
The Eurobracing is done out of regular glass... not starfire like the rest of the tank... meaning you see a 1/2" of green-glass at the top...

Understand. Have you considered:

• Don't most canopies overlap the top edge such that 1/2" of green wouldn't be visible? (with four sides viewable in a wall, one side of the wall will have a canopy?)
• You're going for a fairly turbulent and variable flow correct? So you'd want something to overlap the top edge anyway, so the surface of the water of the water doesn't make a visible line towards the top of the tank that shows the resulting varying/churning "waves" so your guests don't end up feeling sea-sick when they view your tank? From the photo, it is going in the dining room? You may be fine with it, but some stores end up putting wide black tape up around the upper edge for this reason as they have no control of the stomach of whoever walks in the door.
• It's going in wall yet four-side viewable? Sticking out which side? (I assume it's not to be a penny toss feature for guests & their kids) Going for rimless anywhere? How is the drywall-to-tank seam going to be sealed and finished? Will the eurobracing edge be visible?
• Any eurobracing visible from below the water will be back-lit by your lighting and will not stand much chance of showing any green.

...
13 holes requested... 12 drilled...   I've got to run thru the design to see the impact, if any... I do not anticipate any issues with this, just a minor disappointment...

Have you passed the consequences past Paul at Ocean Motions yet?

And, I assume the bottom was treated after all the holes were drilled? As in, you can't drill the missing hole?

Any chance that the hole closest to the missing one can be plumbed to run two channels of water through the bulkhead, then run under the sand/rock to the missing location? Even if it's a sealing bulkhead and two smaller lines? Not ideal, but how much affect would two smaller lines have compared to one less line?

[Hookup]

Had you originally said 12 holes then changed your mind? Otherwise, if you had said 13 all along I don't see how the blame could be on you at all...

I did send a drawing with 12 holes in it.  Then an update 6 days later.  I believe the deposit was not sent until after the second drawing. But I can certainly see where the confusion, on the builders part, could occur.  However, I do not think it's unreasonable for me to update my drawing & spec prior to the build and expect the builder to be able to keep track.  Correct me if you disagree, sometimes a third-party perspective is required.

Understand. Have you considered:

• Don't most canopies overlap the top edge such that 1/2" of green wouldn't be visible? (with four sides viewable in a wall, one side of the wall will have a canopy?)
• You're going for a fairly turbulent and variable flow correct? So you'd want something to overlap the top edge anyway, so the surface of the water of the water doesn't make a visible line towards the top of the tank that shows the resulting varying/churning "waves" so your guests don't end up feeling sea-sick when they view your tank? From the photo, it is going in the dining room? You may be fine with it, but some stores end up putting wide black tape up around the upper edge for this reason as they have no control of the stomach of whoever walks in the door.
• It's going in wall yet four-side viewable? Sticking out which side? (I assume it's not to be a penny toss feature for guests & their kids) Going for rimless anywhere? How is the drywall-to-tank seam going to be sealed and finished? Will the eurobracing edge be visible?
• Any eurobracing visible from below the water will be back-lit by your lighting and will not stand much chance of showing any green.

Anything is fixable, usually in multiple ways.  It doesn't correct the mistake, but it can be overcome.

The tank will be 'in the wall' for 4.5 inches to be flush with the one room, and sticking into the other.  The tank is an open top design, so the euro bracing will be visible, well is supposed to be...   The lighting is from an ATI Powermodule that will be suspended above the tank giving an open, clean look.   I will be putting a mesh-cover on the tank to protect the dartfish and wrasses from their own stupid selves.... but even that has been designed to leverage the eurobracing to ensure again, a minimal/no impact on the sight lines.

Have you passed the consequences past Paul at Ocean Motions yet?

And, I assume the bottom was treated after all the holes were drilled? As in, you can't drill the missing hole?

Any chance that the hole closest to the missing one can be plumbed to run two channels of water through the bulkhead, then run under the sand/rock to the missing location? Even if it's a sealing bulkhead and two smaller lines? Not ideal, but how much affect would two smaller lines have compared to one less line?

Yes, the bottom is tempered 3/4" glass. No more holes are possible.  Paul and I have spoken, and he has some ideas/thoughts on how to accomplish the 13holes by creating a custom bulkhead.  I'm grateful for his input.

The "problem" is that the missing hole is for a intake-line to one of the closed loops.  Both closed loops have their intake lines on the lefthand side of the tank.  This creates a "depression" by removing 8400gph of water from that side of the tank...  This was 50% of the mass-motion flow that would keep the tank-water rolling counter-clockwise in the tank.   I can use a different hole, but then the effect is gone... and there-in lies the problem.... I need to keep the two CL intakes on the same-side to assist with the mass-flow...

Thanks for the suggestions/ideas.  I really do appreciated the help and ideas.

[White Lightning]

Changing your initial plan and relaying it to the builder with ample time is not too much to ask. You are the customer and from what I understand, "the customer is always right" You seem to be taking this well. I know that if I submitted my exact specifications and the final product came back  different than what I had requested, I'd SNAP. Good on ya for keeping your cool. I still can't wait to see some pics of this tank/build!

[sdivell]

I did send a drawing with 12 holes in it.  Then an update 6 days later.  I believe the deposit was not sent until after the second drawing. But I can certainly see where the confusion, on the builders part, could occur.  However, I do not think it's unreasonable for me to update my drawing & spec prior to the build and expect the builder to be able to keep track.  Correct me if you disagree, sometimes a third-party perspective is required.

Tim, In my line of work I deal with contracts with contractors and deal with a lot of change orders.  If you had redone your drawings and documented it with a date, and a new email (Transmittal) it will stand up in any court as being part of your contract.  The builder needs to make this right, either by giving you a fair amount of money back for your trouble or providing the materials/labour for bulkhead you mentioned.  Good luck.

[Hookup]

Page 2 of this thread has a diagram with 12 holes, but the text clearly says there are 13, sent to builder on Sept 10th.

Page 3 of this thread has a diagram with 13 holes, with more text, also saying 13 holes, sent to builder on Sept 16th.

I see the problem, however, it's not my responsibility to keep track of the 'latest diagrams'.  That's the builders job.


I hope for a more reasonable resolution.  Believe me, i'm like a duck right now... calm on the surface, but under neath, im churning water at a ferocious pace... Being calm is the only way to get a resolution IMO.. but I really do want to go off the deep end...