Cichlids to Discus...help needed.

[Stussi613]

As some of you may have seen from my classified ads, I've decided to change my 60g short over to a planted community tank with Discus.  I did some reconnasaince over at BA's tonight and the advice I got was to go with black flourite substrate, plants,  2-3 watts per gallon of lighting and somewhere around 4 discus.  I tend to agree, but I have very little experience with planted tanks.  Obviously a complete switch is in order as my aragonite and rocks won't really support the water params that discus need.  I've started doing research, but any advice from those of you with planted tanks and discus would be GREATLY appreciated!!

[cichlidicted]

hey ... am new into planted tanks ... but i would reccomend is to start with plants for a month or two before adding the discus... this way you would understand how plants work .... i might be wrong, but what i remember from the research i did about discus is that they dont like strong lighting (similar to their environment)... so i would say you stay with 2watts per gallon.. this means add low light plants like java, crypts, anubias etc....

As for lighting (equipment) for for a good quality ... i would recommend T5HO fixtures where you get to replace the bulbs for 10 dollars if you want too...... but dont go for coralife for example or any fixture that uses incandescent light bulbs cuz they cost around $50 for getting a new one.

One very funny and intresting fact that grabbed my attention is not to add algea eating fish such as pleco's or otos etc.. cuz they might stick on to the dicuss thinking its a glass or something, lol.


goodluck.

[fischkopp]

The main problem with discus and plants is temperature, discus likes it above 30C, most plants prefer it around 25C. Next item would be substrate: discus naturally prefers sand, plants have a hard time growing in it. Fertilization and CO2 injection will be necessary to keep the plants, but if the levels are to high it might harm the discus ... in my experience is that it is important to focus on one: either discus tank or planted tank - a high tech planted tends to be unhealthy for sensitive fish (my experience). I am not saying, that a discus tank can't be planted, but it should be discus first, plants second.

[Toss]

BA suggested substrate is a good start. You don't want to change substrate a year down the road. Next, discus like low pH and driftwood will help. Invest some money on driftwood. The more the merrier
Now, just in case you change your mind a year from now and become plant 1st and discus 2nd, you don't have to tear apart your tank completely.
You may start with easy and hardy plants like vals, java fern, anubias, etc. These plants will do okay in high temp. water. You can start adding more difficult and demanding plant as you go along. It may survive or it may not. There is no hard rule in this hobby. It may work in one tank and not work in other with the same parameters.
Have fun

[clouxles]

I have tried a planted tank and Discus... tried hard. I have given up. Now it's Discus with lower light and fast growing easy plants. Still looks amazing. The fish are beautiful. It can be done but the fish are too expensive to lose on a regular basis.

Good luck

[robt18]

One trick I've learned with discus over the years is that if you keep 3 or 4 together they are much more aggressive towards each other. Once you get up to around 5 or 6 it seems to go away. One discus per 10 gallons is a safe number, so I'd go with about 5 or 6 in your tank.

For substrate go with flourite or eco-complete, either way is good.

I have fancy plecos in with my discus and I've never had a problem. However I have heard of issues before so it's your call... Plecos however are quite sensitive to CO2 overload and can be wiped out pretty easily if there's a spike.

Make sure your tank is well cycled and has a good bio-filter established beforethe discus go in. Eheim filters and lots of substrate is a great way to go.

Cycle with slower fish, or if you go with faster ones take them out when the discus go in. Too stressful!

Hope that helps.

[ciaus]

I am keeping 5 Discus in a 55G bare bottom tank.  Fewer Discus meant aggression toward one fish...I started with a gravel bottom, but found that keeping it clean was just too mauch, so i removed it in a few stages...The discus ae doing better, subjectively, now that the tank is bare bottom.  I also have three gold/yellow Gouramis which I used to cycle the tank, they are now about 4 inches long, and although speedsters, do not seem to distrub the discus at all.  Also in the tanlk are three bushy nose plecos, also no issues with them.  I should note that although my tank doesn't have any substrate; it does have drift wood, as a PH buffer, and some rocks etc to allow the fish to hide, and to block their view, for the whole tank, from one location.

Water temp @86F, PH @ 6.0 to 6.4
In my tank, the discus are kings, and I am not certain that the conditions they need are condusive to a planted tank.
Hope this is helpful...

[Stussi613]

Thanks to everyone that has posted and pm'd me...but I want to clarify that what I'm going after is a discus tank with some plants in it.  I have some Java Fern and Anubias Nana that will likely move over, along with my BN pleco.  The tank is well established at this point and after I change the substrate I'll do progressive water changes to get the PH down.  I'm going to add some dither fish at that point to maintain the cycle, then I'll add the Discus when things are optimal.  If worse comes to worse I'll just move the BN to a 10g that I have empty now and bring my Fluval 404 over to a friends house and put it on his 120g discus tank for a week to seed it if I have to tear the tank down.  I'd like to get a good start on this project over the holidays, I just need to get rid of the damn saulosi first!

[robt18]

You can probably leave the birstlenose in there, he'll like the lower pH and from my experience they have no problem with larger water changes. I wouldn't worry about moving your filter around or anything like that. Typically you don't want to add a lot of discus at one time (acclimation stress and biofilter overload...) so if some dies off it's not that big of an issue, it'll come back as you add more fish.

[exv152]

... I want to clarify that what I'm going after is a discus tank with some plants in it.  I have some Java Fern and Anubias Nana that will likely move over, along with my BN pleco.

From personal experience, you want to get the discus from the same source so they are all relatively the same age and size.  This makes a huge difference because discus have a tendency to pick on each other, and the more the merrier.  I would go with a minimum group size of 6-8 because you will always have a runt in the group, and most likely it will not grow well, or worse, die. Don't forget these are cichlids, so they are territorial.  The difference is these are much more expensive, and suceptible to disease and illness, so you want to minimize their stress, provide regular water changes (almost daily) and a varied diet of live & dried foods. Also, I wouldn't increase the light intensity too much as they tend to be very jumpy, and skiddish.  The plants you've chosen are very good because they don't grow to invasively which allows lots of swimming space, which is ideal for discus. 

[Stussi613]

So after scoring that sweet piece of driftwood at the auction on Sunday I took the Saulosi back to BA's (feel like I should have gotten a kiss on my way out since they gave me $3 each on trade and then immediately put a sign @ $12.99 on the tank!) and picked up three bags of black flourite.  Pulled the majority of the water out of the tank and then used a large fish net to scoop up the aragonite that I had for substrate (still for sale, PM if you are interested!).  Getting the aragonite out was way easier than I thought.  Siphoned out the remaining water then placed the driftwood in the middle of the tank, cleaned all the substrate and then put it in...making sure to cover the entire slate base with a good layer of flourite.  Did some other maintenance on the tank, then started filling it up.  Got almost to the top and to my horror the driftwood came half way off the bottom of the tank.  I know that wood tends to float, especially when it's dry, but Rebecca did an amazing job on the slate base and the whole piece probably weighs 25 pounds.  The tank cleared up well over night, but I'm not going to mess around with it for a few days hoping that the wood settles back down.

I have to say, I'm going to be on the lookout for a new light fixture now, with the dark substrate the tank looks dim.  I'll post some pics as things progress, but any advice on keeping that driftwood down would be greatly appreciated.