Salt Water Tank with no filter.

[Bizz]

I was thinking of turning one of my tanks from fresh water to salt water and was researching about filtration for a salt water tank. Multiply web sites say you only need a thick bed of live sand and live rock with a protein skimmer. A few even said don't use a canister filter because it raises the nitrates to high. I was just wondering what any one out there used for there filtration on there salt water tanks.

Thanks

[Aiglos]

I am using a powerhead for water movement on my nano tank, and live rock and sand for biological filtration.

[Bizz]

how much live sand and live rock do you have in your tank

[luvfishies]

I only used Live Rock, powerheads for water movement, and a protien skimmer in both SW tanks.

About 2" of fine sand, NOT "live sand", 1 lb per gallon of LR. Water was always fine, even with a messy fish like a Porcupine Puffer.

You do NOT want mechanical/biofiltration like in FW, as yes, they end up being nitrATE factories. Why make the biobugs in the LR work any harder than they have to??

[gator]

There are some methods that don't even employ protein skimmers, such as the "plenum" method where a layer of stagnant/anaerobic water under the substrate is maintained with a screen.  This is supposed to help with eliminating nitrates, similar to the anaerobic pockets deep within live rock.

Among various other things, I use a bio-ball tower because I like the added redundancy of biological filtration.  If something dies in the tank, and is not immediately noticed, the extra filtration helps.

The nitrates in my tank are almost always at zero, and never above 10 ppm, even before I added my planted refugium.

[Bizz]

Where do you guys get your water for your marine tank. I was looking at reverse osmosis filters and they were like 250$.

[gvv]

Check here:
http://www.aquariacanada.com
You may try to call the guy personaly, I bought for about 115 (with TDS meter) from him.

[Aiglos]

Is the aquaria canada in ottawa ?  Im so mad at that site, ive emailed them several times about my account.  I gave up going there, they won't activate my account, its been near 3 months now.

[gvv]

Is the aquaria canada in ottawa ?

Hull.
It is wierd, my acount was activated in minutes after I've registered.

[ALPARENT]

I get my H2O from the grocery store. They have a self-serve RO unit.
I tested the water for phosphate and it's at 0.

I have about 15lbs of sand in my 20g.

Got some live rocks (before I know better) and some dry rocks.

Now that I know that live rock is live for the bacteria living in it and not on it. I would get some nice dry rock (1 or 1.5 lbs/g) and a nice live rock with nice corraline. Set the tank up and wait. The sand and rock will be live when the cycle is done. They will be populated with bacteria and they will be your filter. The same way your filter media work in FW.

If you are not in a rush you can even make your own rocks.

[Bizz]

where did you guys get your live rocks and live sand.

[kennyman]

hey this is cool

I want to check to make sure I understand this. The bacteria in live rock can deal with N in amonia, nitrite and nitate form, eliminating the need for biological filters?

Is it possible to keep some critters and have the refugium plants incorperated into the main tank rather than a seperate container?

[artw]

Yes. and Yes.   In effect your rocks become your biological filter.
I am going to be setting up a reef tank because of this exactly.

[Marx]

alway put dry rock on bottom and liverock ontop.. they are light dependent..

also the bateria lives deep inside liverock.. which is why live rock are so porous..

Right now i have 125# of liverock in my 75gal reef tank.  so my filtration is great.. accompanied by my protein skimmer rated to 140g tank.

[Bizz]

What ALPARENT said up there is it true, can one piece of live rock during the cycle multiply enough bacteria to make all the sand and rocks in the tank live.

[Marx]

not exactly true.. it take alot of time for base rock to become live.. a few months at least.. why else would people spend 500$ on live rock otherwise??

[Bizz]

so you are saying to buy as an example 60% live rock and 40% dry rock. And what about live sand should I look in to getting any or is it a waste of time and money.

[ALPARENT]

The question is not will the bacteria multiply enough.......the question is, do I have enough rocks foy the bacteria to live in? And if you go with the 1 to 1.5 lbs/g the answer is yes.

Let me explain.
Some of the bacteria need ammonia to survive and others nitrite.
So your bacteria population will grow depending on the food available to them (ammonia and nitrate).

So if you have allot of fish, they will produce a lot of ammonia, then you need enough rocks to accommodate the amount of bacteria needed to control that amonia. If you have only have critters that produce low amonia.......you need less......get the picture?

So the 1 to 1.5 lbs/gal is more of guide line.

Even if you had a 220g but only put one fish in it, you would not need 220lbs of rocks (but that tank would look kind of empty )

On the other hand, you can't over stock a tank and just add more rocks.  (You want your fish to have some space to swim.)

Again the same principal as the filter media.



So the answer to your question is yes the bacteria multiply enough.

So basically you could start your SW tank the same way you would your FW........but.......a lot more goes on when a SW tank starts, you have your algae blooms, you have to crank up the PH. That why they say the tank as to "stabilise" itself.



We all know that money can't buy you love..........but when it comes to SW .................. money can't buy you patience.


My 20g is now 1 month old and all I have in it are hermits and snails.

Patience, discipline and research is the key.

[Marx]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  100% agree

patience and a good saltwater book for reference.

[ALPARENT]

I never said it won't take time.

There is a discussion on Reef Central about live rocks.

A lot of people will spend 500$ on live rocks because that's what they are told they need to do!


If you by 500$ of live rocks.....do they put it in bags with water? I don't think so! They put it in a foam box.........so most of your "live" rocks are "dead" by the time you get home.

That's why the cycle is faster with live rock (you introduce a bunch of dead stuff in your tank.....thus amonia) ( I didn't fully understand that part when I started).

So next time I will introduce my own amonia (like we do for FW) and the cycle will be even faster.

I'm not forcing any body to believe me.

But do the research.

I didn't do enough when I started and I spent $$$$ I didn't need to.

But don't take my word for it, or anybody's. Do the research and make an educated decision.

It will be your decision and you will know why you took it.


All that said..................MAN...........SW tanks are fun.