Fluval 404 Problems

[Zoe]

So, I bought a Fluval 404 Canister filter from mr. x on OVAS on Monday. It was supposed to work well and have no leaks but not only does it leak, a piece of the impeller is missing and so is the rubber stopper on the impeller assembly.

mr. x l has apparently decided that he really liked my $60 and has changed his mind about taking the filter back, I guess my best bet is to try to fix the issues.

So far, I have lubed the o-ring with plumber's silicone, I have cleaned out the various nooks and crannies, and it still leaks, possibly because the impeller isn't working. Aside from replacing the impeller, what else could be wrong with it? When it's on, it rattles like mad, and IF it works, it just sucks in a bunch of air and leaks from the sides.  I'm reticent to pay to replace the impeller without being sure that that will fix my problem (I'm hoping to borrow one to test it out).

Any other ideas?

Thanks,

Zoe

edit: no name calling!

[Stussi613]

I have a fluval 404 on my tank, if you want to bring yours over and switch out the impeller and try it on my tank I'd be willing to help you out (if yours is used on a salty we can just take out the media and make sure it's empty before trying it).  PM me if you are interested...

I know that mine won't start at all and is VERY noisy unless I seriously push down on the top of it and avoid using the purple "handles" on the side that seem to be there to close it.  It won't create any suction and start the water flow at all unless it is well and properly sealed.  From what you describe it sounds like it's just a fin missing off the impeller, if that is the case then I'm not sure it would have anything to do with the leaking, it sounds more like it's not airtight than missing any impeller power.

RE: editing out names - I'm not trying to raise any sh!t, but if someone on the site is selling stuff that clearly isn't as advertised shouldn't we be able to warn other users so they don't get burned too?

[Zoe]

PM coming your way

Someone I spoke to said that the impeller function helps create the seal by creating pressure inside the canister.  They also said that letting it run for a while (in the tub, where it can leak without ruining the rug) will let everything "set" (like the o ring) and the leak will seal up after a while. I have read some things online which support this. I also got some plumbers lube for the ring but haven't had the chance to see if it actually works as the filter isn't working much beyond rattling and the odd spurt of water from the output :\

I pushed down really hard, too, but there still seems to be a small gap (1-3 mm) between the top and bottom. There is a plastic barrier inside the gap. If you know what I mean... not sure if that makes any sense.

RE: editing out names - I'm not trying to raise any sh!t, but if someone on the site is selling stuff that clearly isn't as advertised shouldn't we be able to warn other users so they don't get burned too?

I can understand how OVAS wouldn't want us to air our dirty laundry on the forums... although I wouldn't call what I did "name calling" (it's not like a called him a "butthead" or something lol).  Anyway, I'll make no secret of it if asked 

[bojon]

Zoe, do you mean the impeller or the impeller cover? I have a 404 and a while back, the impeller cover is broken, then it caused a leak from the side. At the same time, when this cover is broken, the filter lost it power and stopped working. After I replaced with a new cover, it works again without any leak.

[Zoe]

Zoe, do you mean the impeller or the impeller cover? I have a 404 and a while back, the impeller cover is broken, then it caused a leak from the side. At the same time, when this cover is broken, the filter lost it power and stopped working. After I replaced with a new cover, it works again without any leak.

Hm, both, actually. One of the "wings" on the impeller is broken off, so is the rubber stopper on the impeller assembly. With regards to the impeller cover, it is intact but one of the plastic tabs that you push in to open the cover is broken off. However the cover stays on fine and the circular part is undamaged.

[dan2x38]

If you test it with a good impeller and the noise stops then think about replacing that cover too. It is still worth it they are an OK filter. I've bought less than perfect items quoted as being fine then replaced parts. Later on I did sell them for a profit.

I also told you the rubber stopper comes with the impeller it actually comes with the ceramic shaft. They sell for around $10 the impeller $16 (I think). I do not know how much the cover is. I went and looked up the cover it is about $10.

Someone did me a bad deal and I let everyone I spoke to know who they were. One thing word of mouth is a good advertising or bad. I protect my reputation. Over one sale I would never jeopardize it for a few dollars!

[Zoe]

Yeah, if I can get it working with an extra $20-$30, it would still be worth it IMO. But if I spend $30 and it doesn't work that would suck

It's not even just about reputation, it's about being ethical IMO.  Like not traveling through life via the moral sewer.  As Mr. X told me: "I don't care about $60 I make that in an hour".    Maybe he thinks that if I can magically make filter parts disappear, that I can magic myself another $60 LOL.

Luckily OVAS is overwhelmingly awesome. Eases the frustration.

[Rob Labonte]

+1 to Stussi613 for offering that to zoe.

zoe,

my fluval canister filter experiences have been this,

-my old fluval 403 was noisy as hell on start up, rattled like crazy. but once i got the air out of it and got it going, it was fine.

-sometimes priming a canister is the hardest part to do. i like to get all the air out of my hoses by dunking them fully in the tank before hooking them up.

-sometimes it is sealed and you think it isnt because its noisy. there could be air in your media and sometimes it takes some gentle shaking of the filter or tilting to release the air out of it. all canisters filters will be noisy for awhile on start up.

- sometimes you think its leaking and its actually not. theres always going to be water leaking a little at first because it may be overflow from filling too much when you put the top on or water from cleaning, water from the hoses, etc.

- I used to always keep my old fluval 403 in a bucket just in case. i now have more reliable filters and dont do it anymore but i should and think everyone should, just in case.




but it is lame that they sold you a filter with a broken impeller. they had to know that.

[Zoe]

Thanks for the tips, Rob.  We'll see it goes, hopefully it's fixable

And yes I'm pretty sure he knew. Moral sewer, I tells ya! 

[bojon]

Hm, both, actually. One of the "wings" on the impeller is broken off, so is the rubber stopper on the impeller assembly. With regards to the impeller cover, it is intact but one of the plastic tabs that you push in to open the cover is broken off. However the cover stays on fine and the circular part is undamaged.

Oh, that exactly is my problem which the plastic tabs is broken. May be you want to try with a good impeller cover then to see if it solve your problem. FYI, last time the only place in town where I can get a new impeller cover without waiting is at La Niche. The manager there is very nice. :>

[FocusFin]

As Mr. X told me: "I don't care about $60 I make that in an hour"

If it wasn't a big deal to him he'd return the money.

[Zoe]

An awesome person has lent me an impeller, however both of us are missing the impeller shaft. Well, I have it, but it's missing the rubber stopper. Could this be affected the performance of the filter?

I tried plugging it in with the new impellers. It rattles and sounds like the motor is going but it doesn't suck up any water and then eventually the impeller just stops spinning.  Is the motor dying or is the lack of shaft and stopper to blame?

[dan2x38]

You need the shaft with that rubber end. I have 204 sitting here I think the rubber end would fit on the shaft. The diametre of the shaft is the same I think it just the length that differs. The 304 & 404 are the same shaft. You can come borrow the rubber cap to test. But still that cover needs to stay in place. The rubber end holds the shaft stable it is needed or it will rattle. LMK

It will not draw water properly until all those issues are fixed. I had a 304 with a damaged impeller it wouldn't draw any water. New impeller and bang it was working perfectly.

[Zoe]

Dan, does the rubber stopper go on the the end with the "arms", or on the back? I think it's the former.

[dan2x38]

Geeze good thing I checked before you came over or anything. The shaft does look smaller and the rubber cap is embedded in the plastic cover on the 204. If I remember correctly the rubber end goes in the plastic cover. Someone might correct me my memory is not always trustworthy... LOL

Big Al's carrie sthese parts and often have the pieces in stock. if not they can order them. You can also order them from JLAquatics.

[Zoe]

Thanks for the legwork, Dan, but I think I'm about ready to pack it in.  Getting wet and frustrated while I try things is losing its charm. I think the motor must be dying.

Is it worth anything for parts, do you figure? Or destined for the dust bin?

[dan2x38]

If you like bring it over I will look it over for ya. I've had a lot of success with the OH-4 series. Fixed several up. I do not believe it is done. I bet your frustrated I would be too. Maybe someone who doesn't have money invested in will less frsutrated?

Taking Stuart up on his offer would be a good idea. Use his impeller, cover and shaft to test the motor and seal.

In the end though if I were you I'd share the persons name with who ever would listen to me!  It always troubles me when folks get taken advantage of especially good peeps like yourselves.

On another note if you want to borrow my 204 to run until you figure something out your welcome to it it's just sitting around collecting dust at the moment.

[Zoe]

Yeah, I'll try with Stuart before I completely give up.  Afterward, if you would be willing to try your experienced hand at it, that would be amazing.

Thanks for all your help, and everyone else who helped

[dan2x38]

sure LMK... glad to try and help...

[Rob Labonte]

zoe, like i said b4. my fluval 403 would rattle like mad until i got it going so dont get to frustrated.

and def' take one of these guys up on there offer to get your filter going. my first experience with a canister filter was similar to yours.

they are awesome filters once you learn the ins and outs of them.

this site is here to help. from what its sounds like, you are having multiple problems or issues with this filter. bring it to one of these (or me) ovas members and we'll try to get it working right.