New rules and OVAS objectives

[Hookup]

One last thought.

If no one cared about OVAS, there wouldn't be any responses to the changes... 

Sometimes the noise is not "**** disturbing", sometimes it's miss guided passion...



*** Post edited as Swearing, Vulgarities, and Profanities are not permitted - this includes creative spelling of such words.

[dan2x38]

Focusfin - no one is attacking anyone and yet you are calling people cheap, too lazy and outright mocking others! I am pretty sure you are in clear violation of our new forum rules! We are all, members or not, entitled to have an opinion, how we chose to voice it is what counts. Snowgrl83 took the time and effort to voice her opinion, politely, you took all of 2 seconds to blast off hasty nasty words...as a member here on OVAS, I object to you treating people this way while preaching about being a paying member - now THAT is not what OVAS stands for!

Jessie

Hear-hear!

[FocusFin]

Focusfin - no one is attacking anyone and yet you are calling people cheap, too lazy and outright mocking others! I am pretty sure you are in clear violation of our new forum rules! We are all, members or not, entitled to have an opinion, how we chose to voice it is what counts. Snowgrl83 took the time and effort to voice her opinion, politely, you took all of 2 seconds to blast off hasty nasty words...as a member here on OVAS, I object to you treating people this way while preaching about being a paying member - now THAT is not what OVAS stands for!Jessie

Absolutely, I stand by everything I've said.

BTW Snowgrrl if this is an issue of such dire importance to you, where have you been. I have not heard word one about this until today. By your own admission, you waited until the rule was implemented before saying anything. Have you or your organization ever contacted, thanked, acknowledged OVAS for helping to stem the flushing/dumping of fish. Of course not and exactly why your post is entirely misguided.

If you're upset, be upset with the right people.

[Hookup]

 

This is a crock.

All of this is over $20.00...that's really what we're talking about, let's be honest.

If the memberships were free, everyone would have one and none of this would be an issue. The fact is that many people benefit from coming to this site either by becoming informed about the hobby, solving a fish related dilemma or by perhaps picking up a deal and then ultimately choose not to give back to the club because they don't want to part with $20.00. That's their prerogative and no one is faulting them...until now.

I'm going to offend a few people for this no doubt but I feel I have something to offer on this subject for a couple of reason. Firstly, I became a member almost immediately after my first posting in 2007, I never hesitated because I appreciated having somewhere local to get info. Secondly, in an effort to help out the club I "donated" 5 memberships to encourage first time members. Actually it was more self serving than that, I was hoping to shame/guilt, whatever, those individuals who frequented the site without ever having purchased a membership.

I've never understood how people can purchase hundreds, even thousands of dollars worth of equipment and livestock and then balk at paying out $20.00 to be a member. Even if you don't want to be part of the club, it's a small price to pay to support something that is beneficial, helpful and enjoyable.

Snowgrrl, I've attended a grand total of 4 meetings in 4 years but that has never stopped me from purchasing a membership. Your complaint is misdirected and to lay this at the foot of OVAS because others choose to be irresponsible or uncaring is unwarranted and I believe it is nothing more than a canard designed to hide the fact that you are too cheap to spring for a membership. If I am wrong, then prove me so by purchasing a membership, I'll even kick in a few dollars.

Interesting perspective Mike.

I too became a member within short order of my first posts.  However, after many attempts to focus the attention and improvements around the web-side on the club was simply told that the club is not about the web, it's about the meetings.  If you search the members forum you'll find these threads...

I chose not to participate in the club meetings... Let's assume it was because I am somewhat house bound due to being disabled.... I'm not btw, but let's assume I was...

Now I cannot be in the club, my ideas are not welcome because they do not align with the in-person meetings, and the web-site is not the club... So why would I pay???

Infact, I did not renew, yet I continued to post and try to contribute in my own way, helping and asking for help in the forums....

Now you are telling me I'm cheap because I do not pay???  Not really fair of you is it? 

The summary of your post seems to be that no matter what a person posts on-line, they are not a contributor unless they pay $20/year.   Remember, the new rules state that post-count is in no way a factor here....

As I said, you have a very interesting perspective. 

[dan2x38]

I think this thread needs to maintain a respectful tone instead of an attacking tone. I would hope this thread is not locked so those who wish can add there opinions. I hope that everyone releases it is OK to disagree but they do not have to be rude.

I don't think Snowgurl is really trying to say the only issue is endangered fish or releasing into the wild. It is more important to read it as intended as an example of why the classifieds should remain available.

A sponsor also pointed out that traffic will be reduced that will in turn reduce traffic to their forum. This could have potential of losing sponsorships. Then membership will be less valuable because there will be less sponsors offering discounts. Less sponsorship monies and potentially members will not renew then there will be less speakers and so on. It could have a cascade affect? These are a couple examples not the only ponits.

This is the real issue what is the affect?

[Snowgrrl83]

BTW Snowgrrl if this is an issue of such dire importance to you, where have you been. I have not heard word one about this until today. By your own admission, you waited until the rule was implemented before saying anything. Have you or your organization ever contacted, thanked, acknowledged OVAS for helping to stem the flushing/dumping of fish. Of course not and exactly why your post is entirely misguided.

If you're upset, be upset with the right people.

FYI
Please refer yourself to this thread where I voiced my opinion on the current regulation that I'm currently questionning before its implementation.

http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=44689.0

Also, I've voiced my opinion on other new rules/modifications via the Shoutbox.  I've also commented my opinion on irresponsible fishkeeping/selling before via this forum in the past.  That thread was discarded because it was unfair to accuse a particular sponsor, which I do agree, was not fair on my part, but it was none the less my opinion.  I admit that it would have been more sensible to post my concern privately - and maybe I should have done the same thing this time around.  

[Fishnut]

 

WOW...and people wonder why we're loosing "Privelages" on this website.

Here's something Snowgrrl83 should have noticed in the Forum Rules:

Section 6, Part 3

"As a member of our forum you must respect the authority of ALL  moderators and the webmaster. Public discussions of moderator or webmaster actions are not allowed on the forum. Do not to protest moderation actions in forum posts. If you don't like something that a moderator has done please send a Private Message or E-mail  to the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem directly with them. The final link  in the chain is to discuss the problem with the webmaster."

I feel I got a massive lecture on a subject that everyone is aware of and that OVAS is being blamed, in part, for all kinds of idiotic behavior just because our classified section isn't open to everyone.  It seems this point has been made a few times in this thread, but OVAS's classifieds aren't the be-all-end-all of fish and supplies sales.  I bet MOST people who want to sell stuff or fish because they're getting out of the hobby don't even know about OVAS.  Most people are accustomed to buying and selling everything else on kijiji or usedottawa, so the fish go there too. 

[Hookup]

WOW...and people wonder why we're loosing "Privelages" on this website.

Here's something Snowgrrl83 should have noticed in big bold letters in the Forum Rules:

Section 6, Part 3

As a member of our forum you must respect the authority of ALL  moderators and the webmaster. Public discussions of moderator or webmaster actions are not allowed on the forum. Do not to protest moderation actions in forum posts. If you don't like something that a moderator has done please send a Private Message or E-mail  to the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem directly with them. The final link  in the chain is to discuss the problem with the webmaster.

Hahaha I guess that, plus mikes comments = "pay and be silent... We know what were doing."

[robt18]

Maybe if people, member or non, don't agree with the rules of the club or the way it is run they shouldn't participate?

We just elected a new executive (with many returning members) to help steer the club in a direction we see appropriate, if anyone was concerned they could have of course run for a position.

There are many many many other forums, even some other local ones, strictly about fish keeping.

There are several local classified sites where anyone can post ads.

I don't see why this has become such a huge issue here. If forum users have an attachment to the club it would seem reasonable that they would be willing to buy the membership to retain the benefits of OVAS rather than visiting another site. Its a simple cost/benefit analysis... is it worth $20 to be able to post classifieds here, have an OVAS discount at sponsors, etc. ?

EDIT: ^Executive and website moderators are fairly elected by the members of the club.

[Snowgrrl83]

Well, Rob, maybe you're right!  See ya! 

[FocusFin]

I chose not to participate in the club meetings... Let's assume it was because I am somewhat house bound due to being disabled.... I'm not btw, but let's assume I was...

Now I cannot be in the club, my ideas are not welcome because they do not align with the in-person meetings, and the web-site is not the club... So why would I pay???

Infact, I did not renew, yet I continued to post and try to contribute in my own way, helping and asking for help in the forums....

Now you are telling me I'm cheap because I do not pay???  Not really fair of you is it?

The summary of your post seems to be that no matter what a person posts on-line, they are not a contributor unless they pay $20/year.   As I said, you have a very interesting perspective.

I am telling you that you are cheap if you choose not to contribute to the financial well being of the club and then criticize the way in which it is being run. It is ungrateful to the people who donate their time and is in my opinion an example of entitlement. The ideal way to show your disproval of the changes was to attend the member meeting and run as a candidate for change. No one who criticizes bothered.

Holachicka voiced her opinion several times in recent months and even went so far as to nominate herself but then decided against. I did not see her at the election meeting. So why are the people most vocal about the changes doing the least to participate in the direction of the club.

There are several things that I have disagreed with over the past 4 years but I chose to support them anyway because I was not willing to run as a candidate and change the things I didn't believe in. My loss.

It has become far too commonplace in this world to allow others to do the things we don't wish to do and then complain about the way in which they are done.

[holachicka]

Yes, I nominated myself and fully intended to attend the meeting. Once one member decided to start a campaign against me in the members only forum, yes, I dropped out and did not attend the meeting. I don't have many objections to how this club is run but I do not feel inclined to "fight the system".

All in all, I do not like how focusfin is being overly critical and somewhat rude to non-members.

[apuppet]

im a member,  and i can understand why the clubs executives has taken this action.  This must not have been an easy decision, but they are re-imaging the club and thinking long term.  Good for them.  Im proud to be a member.

for thoses that dont like this change, cast your vote, join the executive board, volunteer your time, and change the rules.   but first. you have to be a member.  

peace.

[holachicka]

One more thing - I care, very much ab out this club but felt that after so much of the drama, I just did not want to be part of the exec or too involved in OVAS things. Its sad, I feel sad because I LOVE this hobby but for you to actually try to call me out like that is not only against the new rules (calling me out) but pretty insulting!

Jessie

[Hookup]

I am telling you that you are cheap if you choose not to contribute to the financial well being of the club and then criticize the way in which it is being run. It is ungrateful to the people who donate their time and is in my opinion an example of entitlement. The ideal way to show your disproval of the changes was to attend the member meeting and run as a candidate for change. No one who criticizes bothered.

Holachicka voiced her opinion several times in recent months and even went so far as to nominate herself but then decided against. I did not see her at the election meeting. So why are the people most vocal about the changes doing the least to participate in the direction of the club.

There are several things that I have disagreed with over the past 4 years but I chose to support them anyway because I was not willing to run as a candidate and change the things I didn't believe in. My loss.

It has become far too commonplace in this world to allow others to do the things we don't wish to do and then complain about the way in which they are done.

Yep.. Guilty as charged.  Of course, we all chose to express ourselves and influence change in our own ways.

But in the end, you are right.  I guess this is the end.

[FocusFin]

Hahaha I guess that, plus mikes comments = "pay and be silent... We know what were doing."

Hookup,

I think what it means is "they were elected to do a job and if it is unpopular then they will face the consequences at election time"

All in all, I do not like how focusfin is being overly critical and somewhat rude to non-members.

That's fair comment because I too found the non-member's comment to be rude, ungrateful and overly critical and I was offended by it.

Its sad, I feel sad because I LOVE this hobby but for you to actually try to call me out like that is not only against the new rules (calling me out) but pretty insulting! jessie

It's unfortunate that you feel that way but I simply responded to your comments to me ie.Focusfin - no one is attacking anyone and yet you are calling people cheap, too lazy and outright mocking others! I am pretty sure you are in clear violation of our new forum rules! We are all, members or not, entitled to have an opinion, how we chose to voice it is what counts. Snowgrl83 took the time and effort to voice her opinion, politely, you took all of 2 seconds to blast off hasty nasty words...as a member here on OVAS, I object to you treating people this way while preaching about being a paying member - now THAT is not what OVAS stands for!

[dan2x38]

The executive of any organization works for the membership. I know that sounds bad but that is the job title. They speak for the membership but the membership has a right to speak up and give their opinion. If non members are shot down why will they want to be members. The membership dues pays for all of OVAS along withe the sponsorship fees. It is our money used we have a say.

There is more to it than someone running to change things we all know that. I sat on the executive but due to personal reasons did not not complete a full term. In my eyes that doesn't give me any more rights than anyone else. I've donated and recently donated to OVAS but in my eyes it doesn't give me any more privilege than any other member.

To me it is attraction. If OVAS only wants to be a physical club meaning meeting attendance as the only focus that might not be the wisest choice. We are in the information age with tons of social networks. The Internet is here to stay.

If the club is going to make large changes then the club should be involved in such decisions. Yes day to day issues are handled so things can run but large face changes in organizations are usually brought to a referendum. How do the few know what the many want?

[robt18]

^That's what democracy is for. The people/members elect individuals to represent their ideas and then the elected party acts in the memberships interest. This means the elected ones have all the power, but those who voted had all the power while electing them. They do not have the power to make every decision.

[Snowgrrl83]

Alright, well, I voiced my opinion and OVAS execs can do what they want with them. I just wish I knew the real reason for the changes incured and would like to have the logical explanation for it rather than a vague.  I voiced my opinion and I'm glad that it hasen't been deleted yet.  I really hope that my opinion is taken into consideration. I really respect the fact that they took the time to listen... and I'm really sorry if this discussion has gotten out of hand - it wasnt my intention.

[FocusFin]

Yep.. Guilty as charged.  Of course, we all chose to express ourselves and influence change in our own ways. But in the end, you are right.  I guess this is the end.

Just to be clear, I was responding to your example and not you personally.

There are many ways to give back and I for one have done (bugger-all)² but what I have done is in appreciation for the people who give their time because I'm too selfish to give mine.