co2

[Mettle]

I've always thought about it but never gone ahead with it. Is it really worth doing? Does it help a ton like people say it does? I'm downgrading the number of fish tanks I have to just one for the time being (and a quarantine tank) and I'd like it to be perfect. It does have plants in it and so I want it flourish.

Lighting of course is a different issue altogether.

I've attached a pic of the tank at the moment. It's not full with water yet. It doesn't have a filter on it yet. And I plant on changing the background as soon as I can remember to buy the one I want... With all that said and done. Is the co2 really worth it and will I be happy I spent the time rigging it up and all that? Also - if I do it wrong will I kill my fish?

At the moment I have a single male betta in the tank and he loves it.

[darkdep]

From what I understand, Lighting is more important to establish first before CO2.  CO2 + Ok lighting will be a waste; high light without CO2 will do much better.

It may be your camera, but the tank looks rather dark.

On the closest thing I have to a "show" tank at the moment, I rebuilt the light from an old 25 watt T10 to 2 x 25watt T6's and the difference in the plants is rather remarkable.  I'm sure that if I added another tube the plants would be growing at a stupid rate, all without CO2.

Course, I'm sure the type of plants matter.  I only have "easy" plants; others may need CO2.

[Mettle]

No, the tank is dark.

And all this talk of t10 and t6 and so on means absolutely nadda to me, heh. I simply do not understand it.

I was looking to do some custom lighting for the tank, however. I'd just need to get a glass top for it first. And go from there.

The plants I've selected are mainly low light plants from what I can tell. So I don't think I'd need any more than 2 wpg. But that's just me.

I don't really like really bright tanks... I guess that's a downfall then if I want live plants and not fake ones.  :?  I'll have to comprimise I guess.

What would be the cheapest way to step up the lighting? And where would I buy these parts?

[darkdep]

Ok, I'll start with a little info on flourescent tubes.

A standard flourescent tube as you find in most office buildings is called a T12 light.  The T means nothing that matters to you.  The 12 is a designation that refers to the width of the tube (T12's are 1 1/2 inches wide).  

Flourescent lights work like this:  They are filled with a mercury vapour that when charged will emit UV radiation.  The inside of the tube is coated with a phosphor that when hit with UV radiation, glows brightly (and hence, we have light!).  Unlike a regular incandescent (AKA regular lightbulb technology) bulb, a flourescent light requires a device to control voltage and other un-interesting electrical characteristics (and this device is called a ballast).  

Different types of flourescent bulbs require different types of ballasts.  Ballasts also come in types to control different numbers of bulbs.

Another important characteristic of flourescent lights is the "colour temperature".  To grossly oversimplify, the colour temp refers to the particular spectrum of light that the bulb produces.  This is measured in Kelvin Degrees, or K.  A common "utility" light as found in an office building can range from 2900K to 4000K.  What the colour temp directly means to you is how "white" the light appears; what it means to your plants is getting the particular wavelengths of light energy that they can absorb.

A brief breakdown of bulbs:

- T12 is your standard flourescent office fixture bulb.  4' tubes are really cheap (less than $4).  They draw 40watts.

- T8 is a newer lower-energy flourescent standard that is only 1" wide, uses less electricity (a 4' tube uses 32watts) but produces roughly the same amount of light as a T12 of similar length.  

- T5 is an even lower energy bulb that is very narrow (3/4" or 1/2", can't remember).  T5's are more expensive, require special ballasts, and are not quite the same sizes as T12's or T8's.

Bulbs also have a Lumen rating.  This is a measurement of how much light they give off.  It varies by manufacturer.  This is a good thing to look at when comparing bulbs.

There are lots of "weird" sizes, like the T6's and T10's I mentioned.  Nothing special; just different widths.

You've probably heard of Power Compacts; these are another form of T5 style lighting but they don't come in straight tubes.

Flourescent lights also come in many different lengths.  You will get the best cost ratio from 4' bulbs, because they're SOOOO mass produced.  But you can get them in lots of other standard lengths such as 24", 18", 36", etc.

You can go several routes to using these lights effectively.  You can purchase a cheap shoplight fixture from Wal-mart or Crappy Tire for about $20-$40.  Look for one with an "Electronic Ballast" that supports T8 bulbs.  

If you want to spend a couple more bucks, and get exactly what you want, you can buy the parts to build your own fixture at Home Depot.  All you need to make your flourescent tubes run is Endcaps (these are the things that connect to the electrodes on the bulbs) and a ballast (also available at HD cheap).  The Ballast will contain a wiring diagram that is fairly easy to follow if you've wired anything in your life.

What I did in a recent retrofit was to take my old light fixture, gut it (ripped out old plastic, ballast, etc etc so all I had was the black plastic shell), got two sets of endcaps and used plastic cement to glue them in place (with bulbs in em to ensure correct spacing), and then drilled two holes in the back and screwed the ballast to the back of the shell.  Two more small holes near the ballast for the wires to go through.  Using the wiring diagram, I stripped and pushed the wire into the endcaps (which have sockets for the wires so you don't need to solder anything) as appropriate.  Used the existing switch, and voila...tons of light cheap.  Total expenditure was about $30 not including the bulbs.

You can make your own shells out of plastic rain gutter from HD (No kidding).

[Aiglos]

Darkdep +1    you should post that as a FAQ or an article on the site.  excellent.

[charlie]

I agree, the easiest explaination thus far on this site, well done Darkdep.

[darkdep]

Thanks guys.  Took me a long time to figure it all out.  

[BigDaddy]

From what I understand, Lighting is more important to establish first before CO2.  CO2 + Ok lighting will be a waste; high light without CO2 will do much better.

Actually, no.  High light without CO2 will be worse... high light REQUIRES CO2, without it, your tank will be nothing but algae

Course, I'm sure the type of plants matter.  I only have "easy" plants; others may need CO2.

Even "easy" plants need CO2.  The question is one of balance between CO2 and growth rates.  High light = high growth rates = higher demand for carbon.  You could have a high light tank filled with java moss, java fern and anubias and you would still NEED to inject CO2.

[BigDaddy]

Ok, I'll start with a little info on flourescent tubes.

A standard flourescent tube as you find in most office buildings is called a T12 light.  The T means nothing that matters to you.  The 12 is a designation that refers to the width of the tube (T12's are 1 1/2 inches wide).

Actually, the standard office tube is an F32T8

The T refers to how many eighths of an inch in diameter the tube is (T8 is 1 inch, T5 is 5/8, etc....)  

Another important characteristic of flourescent lights is the "colour temperature".  To grossly oversimplify, the colour temp refers to the particular spectrum of light that the bulb produces.  This is measured in Kelvin Degrees, or K.  A common "utility" light as found in an office building can range from 2900K to 4000K.  What the colour temp directly means to you is how "white" the light appears; what it means to your plants is getting the particular wavelengths of light energy that they can absorb.

Most aquarists prefer plants in the 5,000 to 10,000 K range.  However, it has recently been noted that plant growth has only been marginally better in these ranges compared to other lower or higher values (the conclusions are get as much energy as you can, colour temp is a secondary consideration).

A brief breakdown of bulbs:

- T12 is your standard flourescent office fixture bulb.  4' tubes are really cheap (less than $4).  They draw 40watts.

- T8 is a newer lower-energy flourescent standard that is only 1" wide, uses less electricity (a 4' tube uses 32watts) but produces roughly the same amount of light as a T12 of similar length.  

- T5 is an even lower energy bulb that is very narrow (3/4" or 1/2", can't remember).

T5 bulbs are 5/8 of an in

T5's are more expensive, require special ballasts, and are not quite the same sizes as T12's or T8's.

Bulbs also have a Lumen rating.  This is a measurement of how much light they give off.  It varies by manufacturer.  This is a good thing to look at when comparing bulbs.

Although lumen value is useless to plants.  Lumens just measure what is visible to the human eye.  Plant wavelengths are outside that range.  You could have a bulb with a high lumen count that does very poorly as a plant grower

There are lots of "weird" sizes, like the T6's and T10's I mentioned.  Nothing special; just different widths.

You've probably heard of Power Compacts; these are another form of T5 style lighting but they don't come in straight tubes.

Flourescent lights also come in many different lengths.  You will get the best cost ratio from 4' bulbs, because they're SOOOO mass produced.  But you can get them in lots of other standard lengths such as 24", 18", 36", etc.

You can go several routes to using these lights effectively.  You can purchase a cheap shoplight fixture from Wal-mart or Crappy Tire for about $20-$40.  Look for one with an "Electronic Ballast" that supports T8 bulbs.  

If you want to spend a couple more bucks, and get exactly what you want, you can buy the parts to build your own fixture at Home Depot.  All you need to make your flourescent tubes run is Endcaps (these are the things that connect to the electrodes on the bulbs) and a ballast (also available at HD cheap).  The Ballast will contain a wiring diagram that is fairly easy to follow if you've wired anything in your life.

What I did in a recent retrofit was to take my old light fixture, gut it (ripped out old plastic, ballast, etc etc so all I had was the black plastic shell), got two sets of endcaps and used plastic cement to glue them in place (with bulbs in em to ensure correct spacing), and then drilled two holes in the back and screwed the ballast to the back of the shell.  Two more small holes near the ballast for the wires to go through.  Using the wiring diagram, I stripped and pushed the wire into the endcaps (which have sockets for the wires so you don't need to solder anything) as appropriate.  Used the existing switch, and voila...tons of light cheap.  Total expenditure was about $30 not including the bulbs.

You can make your own shells out of plastic rain gutter from HD (No kidding).

[darkdep]

Actually, the standard office tube is an F32T8

The T refers to how many eighths of an inch in diameter the tube is (T8 is 1 inch, T5 is 5/8, etc....)  

Yes, an F32T8 is probably the standard now.  But it wasn't a few years ago, I don't think.

(For those who don't know:  F32T8 = F32 (32watts) T8 (T8 size)

Most aquarists prefer plants in the 5,000 to 10,000 K range.  However, it has recently been noted that plant growth has only been marginally better in these ranges compared to other lower or higher values (the conclusions are get as much energy as you can, colour temp is a secondary consideration).

Agreed.  

T5 bulbs are 5/8 of an in

Thank you! That's what it is.

Although lumen value is useless to plants.  Lumens just measure what is visible to the human eye.  Plant wavelengths are outside that range.  You could have a bulb with a high lumen count that does very poorly as a plant grower

Yes, of course you're right here.  But in general, for someone new to it, it's a good basic thing to use to compare bulbs, IMHO (similarly to how the wpg rule is a good 'basic' way to compare light setups on aquariums, but it's not a totally perfect system)

[BigDaddy]

Answering your question, Mettle, yes you can kill your fish if you don't do CO2 properly.  It is possible to overdose CO2 and suffocate your fish.

To answer your other question, at even 2 WPG, CO2 can make a HUGE difference in plant growth.  After lighting, CO2 is the most signficant contributor to growth.

[Mettle]

How do I make sure I'm not suffocating my fish with co2, then? I'm quite weary of this.

And as for the lighting... The tank measures 36x12. So having a 48" fixture is pretty much out of the question. Are the shorter fixtures that expensive?

[darkdep]

Pre-made fixtures will be a little harder to find in "shoplight" quality, and may be more expensive, yes.  Aquarium stores, as you well know, pretty much charge you an arm and a leg for fixtures.

[Marx]

Geez i just had a lighting order..

maybe i'll do another one soon..

[Mettle]

Maybe I'll browse at my store and see what I can come across. Maybe I can ask for a deal. We'll see.

[BigDaddy]

How do I make sure I'm not suffocating my fish with co2, then? I'm quite weary of this.

And as for the lighting... The tank measures 36x12. So having a 48" fixture is pretty much out of the question. Are the shorter fixtures that expensive?

You want to ensure your CO2 does not exceed 30ppm for any extended period of time.  You measure CO2 in your tank by taking pH and kH readings and comparing those values against a CO2 chart.

And yes, a 3 foot dual bulb shop light is more expensive that the 4 footers.  I think I paid over 30 someodd bucks for a dual 3 foot striplight at HD.

[CarlClassen]

Is Kh the same as "total hardness" on test strips?

[BigDaddy]

No... that's gH

[jaracas]

just a little point here, as i am interested in chemistry.
not only could you 'suffocate' the fish with an OD of CO2 but there is also another problem.
i have used CO2 in the past to drop the PH in Amazon tanks, takes some getting set up, but the point is CO2 dissolved into water = Carbonic acid, so if you dont have enough plants (or plant growth) to utilise the CO2 being pumped into the water then the water will basically become dilute acid.
i did a little experiment a few years ago where i pumped CO2, through an airstone into a 10 gallon (UK gallons) tank of water @ a ph of 7.2 with no plants or animals (i can't remember the pressure or volume of the CO2) but at the end of the week the water sat at a ph of 5  :shock: but when i stopped injecting CO2 the ph would raise as the Carbonic Acid is unstable

now things are different in a stocked aquarium as plants use some of the CO2 and ammonia produced would neutralise some of the acid caused by OD-ing, but if you inject too much then the ph will drop.

for optimum plant growth a happy balance is required, and as plant growth is variable then continual ph checks and CO2 adjustment is needed

[BigDaddy]

When injecting CO2 into planted tanks, to get the concentrations we want (25ppm), the ph HAS to drop.  If you are injecting CO2, and your pH is the same as it always was, then you aren't keeping CO2 in the water column.

My pH drops from 6.8 to 6.2-6.4 while I inject CO2 into my main planted tank.  However, I only inject CO2 during lights on (as I have a pressurized setup on a timer), as their is no point pumping CO2 into a tank when nothing needs it.