Very Disappointed

[HomerJ]

How about a "For Free" and "Wanted" section where everyone can create threads (and everyone can PM the OP if interested), and the "For Sale" section for paying members only?  It's not perfect, but does address the "fish has outgrown its tank" or "I'd rather give it away than flush it".  Plus, if I post a "I need a 50-75g tank", I give the opportunity to non-paying-members to PM me with what they have to offer?

[dan2x38]

Go even a further step and OVAS benefits. So many say it is not the $20 but the principal of being forced or the feeling they are being forced to pay that fee so why not a type of consignment approach. Someone wants to sell something they post it for sale but OVAS collects the purchase price through email transfer or PayPal. OVAS collects say 2% of the sale or whatever? Then OVAS submits a cheque to the seller. Yes there are logistics but think of the amount collected? Think of the speakers or presentations that could be held with more serious funds. Maybe road trips or whatever... there are possibilities here!

Saltwater folks say there is little here for them. Saltwater presentations are often more costly i.e. Anthony Calfo. Something along this line would create more chance to bring in more saltwater speakers or even big name plant folks like Tom Barr perhaps? OR other freshwater big names too.

OR maybe a gargage sale 3 times a year or more where OVAS collects a commission of all items members pay less than non-members.

One issue with brainstorming and its been done before (I even started a thread) they do not get processed. The ideas are bounced around but not recorded to be looked at. The other issue the time frame. Such as- Sept new exec. comes in they need to get up to speed so no changes exec meeting over, next meeting OK we are in place get regular business done new business carried forward exec meeting over, Nov. plans for Christmas party no changes exec meeting over, Dec no meeting, Jan. back to regular business and start planning Giant Auction exec meeting over, Feb now lets start looking at ideas but no decision finalized meeting over, March Giant Auction wrap up, this only leaves 2 months before exec. elections and summer break...

My point is new ideas fall between the cracks easily and quickly. Maybe look at the exec. and potential revamping? Have a sub committee/s that look at these ideas, brainstorm and do the foot work for the general exec. Then they bring the meat and potatoes idea to the general exec. for consideration and voting on. This leaves the exec. free to do the regular business. Many organizations use sub committees. They do not always keep them they are often disbanned after the process is complete. The up side is more gets done or reviewed per season and the exec. doesn't work harder = less stress.

Each season (year) it is always the same, "we will look at that" then the season is over and it is next season etc. It is not the exec's fault there is no time and as they say they are busy and have a life plus the hobby they want to enjoy. So why not deligate? Why not divide and conquer. It is in the constitution so it is allowed to create sub-chairs and committees.

[cichlidicted]

Why dont you all meeet and discuss this !!

To be honest with you all, My visit to ovas went down from 10 times a day to like 2 visits a week.... and thats for two reasons:

1.  it became so damn boring an so fish oriented. Its not like we get a 100 new topic each day to discuss. Plus there is no more interactions between members, it's either fish related or no conversations.

2.  Because of your arguments. Argument after another but nothing is done !! we speak but exec dont listen, exec speak and we dont listen.

Am totally against the new changes, but i understand why they happened. So instead of writing pages of reasoning (its not like someone will actaully read it) you all should meeet somewhere and discuss this !! Permenantly ban users that cause trouble, but keep others happy.

If you ask me am i gonna be a member next year, i would say no.
Why? give a reason why i should be a memeber?! what does ovas offer me that i can't find outside of the OVAS world !!

[markw]

If you ask me am i gonna be a member next year, i would say no.
Why? give a reason why i should be a memeber?! what does ovas offer me that i can't find outside of the OVAS world !!

You ever hear of JFK? Ever heard his inaugural speech? Didn't think so!

[aqua666]

this is just crazy
who chooses the exacs for this website?
why do they have the right to do what ever they want?
after all it should be a free website and you should be able to choose if you want the member ship or not.
I was going to become a member but the fact that they try to force it to me I will not do it any more.
I really think ovas should go back to the original setting it was and allow every one to use the classified section for free.
its funny how they looked around for some thing that every one is using and change the setting on that section and only allow the members to use it.

[Brent Shaver]

Paying members vote in the Exec, when we are lucky enough for them to offer there service.

As in any other club that has membership, only the paid membership have the right to vote in anything concerning club business.

And for the record if it goes back to the way it was, no non member would be able to post anything, I will second that.

So many complain so few are willing to help....

[aqua666]

I think the the exec that changed the classified setting should just be changed and one of the members who thinks that the classified add should be free should then replace him or her.
stop ripping every one off specially by pushing the members to pay and other wise they cant sell any thing here.
I think only people that should pay for that section are the once who use it all the time and a lot like they are running a business off of it not those who choose to sell some thing once a while.

[cichlidicted]

when we are lucky enough for them to offer there service.

I totally agree ... we all owe them gratitude for managing the site ... but the only point i'd like to bring up is that exec should fit in to what ovas is, and not the opposite. So if any exec is busy or think wont have enough time to run the show then he/she should never run for election.

[aqua666]

aman!

[garnpet]

The Exec is voted in by the OVAS members.  This is done during the May General Meeting.  The OVAS Exec meets once a month to discuss the operations of the club.  The website is ONLY the online presence of the club.  Our focus is on the meetings where we have a varied selection of programs; speakers, movies, social evenings, mini-auctions.

The decision to change the web site was presented at one the OVAS Exec meetings, discussed and voted on by all the Execs who were present.  The motion passed.  It was not unanimous and there was a great deal of heated debate on the issue.

Please read the following message from the current club president that explains the reasons for this change.

http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=44565.0

[Brine]

The website is ONLY the online presence of the club.  

I've heard and seen this point made many times during this debate. I believe that is the root of the problem. To some people the website is ONLY the online presence of the club. To a majority of people the website IS the club. Way more people are "on-line members" than "meeting going members."
If the website is such trouble for OVAS perhaps OVAS should just shut it down. There are other local aquatic websites.

[Brine]

BTW Dpatte....your signature is against the new rules too!

"A signature shall not contain:

   1. more then 4 lines text"

[cichlidicted]

I will go back to my silence now ...

[az]

I dont think exceutives do whatever they want I mean they are letting us (non members included) speak our mind in an open forum.

I do like an open classified but cant say not having that made the forum slower as it gets slow around this time every year. And I also feel people should buy the membership to show their support, it does help everyone in the long run with speakers/seminars/DIY sessions what not, if you look in reefcentral people just pay and there is no membership or discounts, all they get is a 'I support RC' logo.

I miss the off-topic section too btw.

maybe classified should be pay per use, $1 a post, $0.25 for a bump a day lol. 

[Nerine]

Well I'm going on holiday...and leave ya'll to your bellyaching.

No we exec do not do whatever we want....if we did...well wouldn't you be in for a surprise 

I will be posting a little something from the past (circa 1965?) regarding club issues and show you it isn't a new thing and they survived. if OVAS has survived this long, well a little hiccup and loss of a few members won't harm anything.

[dpatte]

There are other local aquatic websites.

If the club is splitting into two (another online site has come in to compete with the OVAS website - which I have now confirmed), this should be a serious concern for all card members of the club and all OVAS web members.

I do believe its urgent for the sake of the whole club to recognize the value both parts of OVAS make to the other, or risk losing the web portion all together. If ovas loses its web following, its will undoubtedly decline like all other social clubs.

I intend to work here to encourage, without confrontation, the reinstatement of the OVAS website to its original social state. I think OVAS is important and needs the website to remain more open to be important.

But if i don't succeed, i fear that the only thing likely to survive will be a website, and it wont be an OVAS website.

[mseguin]

To address once and for all the issue of a cash grab:
A couple seasons back we decided (or maybe it was the beginning of this season?) to stop selling memberships at LFS. There were a few reasons  and headaches that led to it, but one of the big ones was that most of the memberships we were selling at LFS were mostly being bought for the discount and never seen from again. We felt this was not an image the club wanted to project, or how we wanted to treat our sponsors. We know for a fact this has resulted in less memberships being sold, and yet I don't think any executive regrets that decision. If we wanted a cash grab, the member who buys a membership and is never seen again is perfect. We get $20, can never have to pay for food, a bigger room, etc. But that's not what we want. You can disagree with the classifieds decision if you want, but before posting that it's a cash grab, give your head a shake and read everything that has been posted up till now in a variety of threads. Or if you think we're all just liars at this point, then show up at the elections meeting and vote us all out.

[mseguin]

And yes the members do absolutely get a critical say in how this club is run. But so far, mostly what I'm seeing with just a few exceptions, is a lot of non-members complaining about not having something for free. And saying "I was going to be be a member but excuse A\B\C" doesn't count. The executive always listens to our members and even in this case we are. But I've said before, the executive is done changing things for the summer, when they reconvene in Septemeber who knows what will happen.

[Sue]

I hesitate to bother posting because, its human nature that once a defensive position has been taken, the merits of the other side's arguments are not viewed with clarity.
Its not about belly-aching its about whether the changes to the website are good or bad for the club. Personally, I agree with David that the changes are a bad idea. Having been on the OVAS exec before/during/and long after his time and seen how the success's of the website catapulted the club to what it is today I pretty much have to agree. For the record its the loss of the lounge that bothers me the most. The social side of the club should not be hindered, it should be encouraged. I encourage the 2010/2011 exec to re-visit the decision this fall.

[markw]

I hesitate to bother posting because, its human nature that once a defensive position has been taken, the merits of the other side's arguments are not viewed with clarity.
Its not about belly-aching its about whether the changes to the website are good or bad for the club. Personally, I agree with David that the changes are a bad idea. Having been on the OVAS exec before/during/and long after his time and seen how the success's of the website catapulted the club to what it is today I pretty much have to agree. For the record its the loss of the lounge that bothers me the most. The social side of the club should not be hindered, it should be encouraged. I encourage the 2010/2011 exec to re-visit the decision this fall.

The social part of the club is not being hindered whatsoever. We have gone to great strides to encourage people to get out and meet others. Our BBQ, Christmas party, workshops, breakfast meetings, special events are all done to encourage social gatherings. Even our meetings are structured to encourage meeting members and we as the Exec. go out of our way to reach out to new members to welcome them to our meetings and introduce them to other hobbyists especially those that share a similar part of the hobby. All I'm hearing is that most people are afraid to leave their keyboards alone long enough to go out and actually meet people face to face. Have people lost all social skills or is what you are saying it has been replaced by a computer. If so, I apparently am wasting my efforts.