Questions about switching to discus

[fishycanuck]

I have kept fish for many years, mostly livebearers, and am ready to make some big changes.
I am thinking of selling my 25 and 40G tanks and replacing them with one larger tank (size TBD) and stocking discus.
After doing some reading, I have questions....
-is RO water necessary for discus?
-I have 2 small cories, and 3 plecos of varying sizes, largest being about 8-9" long - could they live with discus?

If anyone has a good reference, please share. There are lots of online sites that give conflicting info - I would like to hear from someone in this area with experience. References for local breeders are welcome.

[jetstream]

Discus was and is still one of my favour fishes. Actually, they are very hardy from my previous experience!

Discus don't need RO water in Ottawa, Ottawa city water is good enough for them. They will breed for you even without special treatment of the tap water except the dechloramine additives.

Cories are good with Discus, but your pleco is a no, because they will harass and try to eat the slime off from the discus body.

Sure lots of current discus keepers will be able to chip in lots of helpful tips!

I suggest either keep the 25 or the 40gal for future use for raising the babies, and remember post pictures! 

[dan2x38]

You need to do good size water changes so have a system in place to handle that like setting up tank close to drain the water. If your keeping plants you will be limited to certain ones because they need warmer waters than most plants can handle 84*-86*. Don't try and set the pH as long as you are near 7 +/- you are fine. Keeping the water stable like temp, NO3 levels, etc. is the key. You need good filtration. I love discus but got rid of mine to move towards saltwater.

Also keep some dither fish so they feel secure like tetras I had the most common cardinals and rummynose. A large shoal is impressive with discus. When they see the small guys out not getten eaten they feel safe and come out.

Also buy healthy proven stock I suggest tank raised from a local breeder close to your water parameters. They will acclimate easier than wild caught or those that have shipped.

[fishycanuck]

Interesting.... I don't have any live plants except for some java moss, not worried about the temperature. I use a Python for 20% weekly water changes. I've been sent some links to read, will be back with more questions!

[cdylnicki]

If you have "common" plecos I suggest you keep them out.

They may destroy any planted setup you may have and will cause you much cleaning!

[fishycanuck]

Cleaning - I've read about elaborate set-ups for daily PWC. How often do you guys do a PWC for discus, and what percentage?

[fischkopp]

Cleaning - I've read about elaborate set-ups for daily PWC. How often do you guys do a PWC for discus, and what percentage?

I am trying to keep up an minimum 50% daily; this is on a bare bottom. You probably find that too extensive, and you are right. I do this extensive WC because I am growing out a group of 10+ juvenile discus in a 75gal, which requires intensive feeding and hence more diligent water changes to keep good water quality.

Anyone can grow out discus, but you need to be aware that is very time consuming (daily WC) over a period of at least a year. If you cannot spend that effort, you should start with adult discus right away. Yes, they are more expensive, but you will save yourself a lot of labor and you can keep them in a decorated aquarium right away. You should also try to understock your tank with discus as this will not pollute the water as fast. But keep in mind that discus are social, yet territorial, so pick either a pair or pick a tank to accommodate a group of at least 6-7 discus. Lots of plants will also help to improve water quality.

In general, it is hard to determine the amount of water to be changed because each tank is unique. The general rules are 50% WC each 5th day is better than 10% WC for each of the five days, means one large WC will reduce pollution more than many small WC that are staggered over the same time. And the more you change the better. But there is also a limit for which any more WC will not improve your water quality any further.

[Stussi613]

A few points from my experience changing to discus ealier this year as well as some suggestions. 

1.  Don't worry about RO water, nobody I know in Ottawa uses it.
2.  Don't worry about PH either, the water that comes out of the tap is fine.  Just make sure you invest in a big bottle of PRIME.
3.  If you don't want to do a bare bottom grow out tank then buy bigger fish and OVERFILTER your tank.  I run a Fluval 404 on a 60G short tank which is roughly double the size I actually need.  I completely agree with everyone else though, if you can't do a BB tank to grow out then start with bigger fish.  Jay and I bought Red Turks at the same time, roughly the same size, and his are a good 1.5" bigger than mine are.
4.  Plants are good, if you plan on putting any plants in then plan to put a good amount of them in.  I've had lots of luck with annubias nana and vals - other plants...not so much.
5.  Allot of people online, and even on here, say to keep your water super warm at 84-86 degrees.  This might not be the best temperature.  Jay, who also posts on here, used to keep his at the high range for years and his fish never spawned.  I started my tank earlier this year and took Evelyns advice to hover around 82-83 degrees and I have a pair that spawns 2x a week.  As soon as Jay lowered his temp, his started spawning too.
6.  A big water change of 50% a week is fine.  Lots of people know I travel every other day for work, so water changes can be a challenge for me.  Lots of people don't know that I can actually go 2 weeks without doing one in my tank without any problems with water quality.  The key to that statement is MY TANK.  It's different for everyone.  It doesn't happen often though, but I've tested and know that I can do it if i have to.
7.  Go talk to Evelyn if you need some advice.  She knows more about Discus than anyone else I've talked to in the club.  Also she has about a million fish in her house and gets some of the best stock at the best prices I've seen in Ottawa or Montreal.  I'm not trying to break any rules by soliciting for her, just giving my experience.

[Jay]

Get the biggest tank you can possibly get.  There are so many different colors and patterns...you'll want them all.  Trust me, you won't miss the plecos.

[dan2x38]

Ya in keeping plants I had to lower my temp to 82* I was able to do that but still lower leaves died off easier than before adding discuss. It sure looked great with the plants, discus, cardinals and rummynose. It was a 65g hi-tech planted setup. I did 50% WC every 4-5 days. I love my saltwater setup but of all the tanks (16) I broke down it is the only one I miss. Discus are my favorate freshwater species!

[pushbuttonstart]

I second everyone's suggestions on the need for water changes with young discus. I set up a 20 gallon when I started my group due to the ease of changing water. It's much easier to change small volumes of water. They went into a 40 breeder when they were about 3.5 to 4 inches. Now they are in something much bigger.

The other thing I can't stress more is to start with good healthy specimens.

my 2 cents  

[Fishnut]

So why is it that Discus need such a large amount of water changes in order to grow properly?  I can grow very large angel fish in a good sized tank with regular weekly water changes and good food.  My Pearl gourami was grown from a 1" baby to almost 6" in a planted community tank...where I wasn't terribly diligent with water changes.

Everyone does this consistent water change with discus...I used to do this but I never stopped to ask why I'm doing it. 

[Jay]

The reason for this is that discus like other fish, secrete a hormone into the water that inhibits their growth. This allows the fish to stay appropriately sized for the volume of water it is contained in. It is for this reason that wild specimens and those subjected to abundant water changes grow to such large sizes.

If you want good quality discus that are going to grow big and healthy, find a local breeder who takes the time to do daily water changes and proper feeding with young fish like 2075Turner. 

[jetstream]

One of the reasons that discus keeper perform massive water change is, heavy feeding produce lots of nitrate as end product of the cycle. High concentration of nitrate will stun the grow of fishes. I have a group of rummy nose tetras living in high nitrate environment, after more than 3 years, they still only an inch long even with weekly 80% water change.

You may ask why peoples heavy feed discus, the reason is all modern strain are thru selective breeding for their colour and show even for competitions.  

[ciaus]

Everyone does this consistent water change with discus...I used to do this but I never stopped to ask why I'm doing it. 

Fishnut, in addition to what has already been said about the nitrogen cycle and heavy feeding, the main reason to do the high volume water change, maintaining water quality, is to grow out Discus quickly.  Growing Discus out rapidly is really only effective for young Discus, to help them to achieve their potential maximum.  Older fish loose the ability to grow quickly, but they will still get there, eventually, but maybe not for years. 
So you can do high volume water changes and frequent heavy feedings for 8 to 12 months, easily tripling the size of a two inch Discus, or you can do as you did with the angels, and not have a 6 inch Discus for two or more years. 
Nothing is mandatory, but the default human desire to have large "pretty fish" sooner rather than later makes the default habit of large water changes and heavy feeding a seemingly automated behavior for keepers of Discus Fish.

HTH
Ciaus