Large amazon biotope

[Pink Punisher]

Hey there everyone! I recently picked up a 96"x18"x15" aquarium and I was thinking of making an amazon biotope out of it. I know I want to incorporate tetras into so it needs to be fairly peaceful.

For filtration I was thinking of using three or four Rena XP2's and for heating I was thinking one or two Hydor inline heaters (recommended wattage?)

Lighting I was thinking two 6700K 4' t5 bulbs and maybe two 4' t5 actinic bulbs? If not actinic then what would suggest? I figured actinic would really make the colours pop on the fish but I could be wrong

Planting I've been debating about for a while, I'm think if its gonna be planted it will be very sparingly. Like for example some mosses and maybe a floating plant.

Now here comes the real problem, stocking! I've got two ideas floating around in my head and I'll post both lists. You'll have to excuse how.. messy they are as I can't decide what I like the most!

So here is;

Stocking list idea one.

9x Adolfo's Cory (Corydoras adolfoi)
OR
9x Panda Cory (Corydoras panda)
OR
9x Tucan Cory (Corydoras tukano)

4X Zebra Oto (Otocinclus cocama)

1x Flash Pleco (L204) (Panaque sp.)

9x Earth eater (Geophagus abalios)

45x Cardinal tetra (Paracheirodon axelrodi)

10x Coral/Ruby Red Pencilfish (Nannostomus mortenthaleri)

5x Horned Bumblebee Snail

Stocking list idea two

9x Adolfo's Cory (Corydoras adolfoi)
OR
9x Panda Cory (Corydoras panda)
OR
9x Tucan Cory (Corydoras tukano)

6 Apistogramma nijsseni
OR
6 Apistogramma gossei
OR
6 Apistogramma bitaeniata
OR
6 Apistogramma steindachneri
OR
6 Apistogramma pandurini
OR
6 Apistogramma baenschi "Inka"

2 Flash Pleco (L204) (Panaque sp.)

3 Whiptail/Twig Catfish (Farlowella acus)

15 Black Neon Tetra (Hyphessobrycon herbertaxelrodi)
OR
15 Bleher's Rummynose Tetra (Hemigrammus bleheri)

20 Cardinal Tetra (Paracheirodon axelrodi)

15 Emperor Tetra (Nematobrycon palmeri)
OR
15 Ulrey's Tetra (Hemigrammus ulreyi)

If you can't tell I like the look of yellow apisto's 

So I'm mainly looking for opinions, recommendations, etc on what I can stock the tank with. Also If there are any problems with what I listed above for filration, heating, etc.

Cheers,

Spencer

[Pink Punisher]

I updated my stock idea, let me know what you guys think

9x Panda Cory (Corydoras panda)
OR
9x Tucan Cory (Corydoras tukano)

8 Apistogramma pandurini
OR
8 Apistogramma baenschi "Inka" (probably these guys!)

2 Flash Pleco (L204) (Panaque sp.)

3 Whiptail/Twig Catfish (Farlowella acus)

15 Bleher's Rummynose Tetra (Hemigrammus bleheri)

20 Cardinal Tetra (Paracheirodon axelrodi)

15 Ulrey's Tetra (Hemigrammus ulreyi)

10 Three-Lined Pencilfish (Nannostomus trifasciatus)

Cheers,

Spencer

[Pink Punisher]

Alright so here is another update of the stock list, I was told on another site that it was stocked quite lightly and to add more characins. So I've added quite a few, what are you guys/girls opinion on it?

8 Apistogramma baenschi "Inka"

35 Bleher's Rummynose Tetra (Hemigrammus bleheri)

40 Cardinal Tetra (Paracheirodon axelrodi)

30 Ulrey's Tetra (Hemigrammus ulreyi)

25 Three-Lined Pencilfish (Nannostomus trifasciatus)

15 Marble Hatchet (Carnegiella strigata)

9x Panda Cory (Corydoras panda)

9x Julii Cory (Cordydoras julii)

3 Whiptail/Twig Catfish (Farlowella acus)

2 Flash Pleco (L204) (Panaque sp.)
OR
2 Ringlet Pleco (Panaque maccus)
OR
2 Bristlenose/Bushynose Plecos (Ancistrus spp.)

1 Spotted/Marbled Hoplo (Megalechis thoracata)

I also found quite an interesting site that is like a smart stock list, you pick the fish you want and the amount and it will compile all the info to give a general recommend pH, temp, etc definately worth checking out!

http://aqadvisor.com/

Spencer

[Fishnut]

Sorry...how many gallons is that tank?

IMO, all those small groups of small fish aren't going to look like much in a tank that size.  I'm thinking of how they would look in my 180, and I feel I would need to add more than 20 of each species.  For example, when I set up my 72 bowfront, I added 30 Rummynose.  They weren't small rummy nose either!  A group of 30 was nice...a perfect number because they were a nice presence in the tank, yet not so many that they were over-powering in numbers.  If I added that group to my 180 tank, however, I'm pretty sure they would look quite insignificant by comparison.

Apistos like to hide and stick to sheltered areas of the tank.  I don't have any but when I see the tanks of people who have them, I always have to look for the apistos.  If there's a few in a tank that size, you'll be doing more searching than watching.  The same goes for the cory cats.  I have 6 Sterbae cories in my 72 gallon.  I have to search for them sometimes and it's not even heavily planted any more.

Now, the Geophagus are going to be impressive.  I don't know too much about that particular species, so hopefully someone can let you know if 10 would be an acceptable number.  Make sure you use a sand substrate if you're going to get them because they like to sift through the gravel.  #10 Silica from Merkley Building supplies would be ideal and cheap!!  Rinse it really well...and rinse outside because it's REALLY dusty.

IMO, big tanks should be used for big fish.  Showcase some nice larger fish and supplement with a few "filler" fish.  When my koi go outside, my 180 is going to eventually have an arowana in it, as well as a few other, yet to be determined, filler fish.

It's all a matter of personal taste though.  Some like lots and lots of little fish, others like a few big fish.

[fischkopp]

Decisions, decision ... one reason I like this hobby is that you can do so many different things!


About your equipment questions:
:: Lots of small filters work, but unless you have all those filters already I would rather go with just two big ones. I saw an Eheim 2217 in the c/f lately, that would be a good option.
:: Actinics are next to useless in the freshwater world. They do emphasize blue colors, but also boosts algae growth. 6500K daylights will give you the most neutral light, best for greens. I prefer Giesemann aquafloras to enhance red colors; a 10000K bulb will promote blue colors. In your case I would use 4x 4ft bulbs, with 2x daylight and 2x aquaflora.


Stocking:
:: Tetras: the more the better. They are only really cool in big numbers. Period. Mixing is personal choice. But I would, just like you do it, mix only big numbers.
:: Apistos: baenschi are great fish! I had a pair for almost three years. Check out my gallery. You could add even more (up to double). Biggest problem will be to find these guys, I haven't seen them around for a while.
:: Panaque: Keep in mind that these are pure vegetarians and intensive wood eaters. They also love to chew away many aquatic plants. And they could react sensitive to any meaty diet left over from cories and apistos.

All in all a good combination of fish. There will be lots going on in the tank. You might also want to add some plants, but that's entirely up to you. Good luck!

[Pink Punisher]

Answers are in bold

Sorry...how many gallons is that tank?

About 112 gallons.

IMO, all those small groups of small fish aren't going to look like much in a tank that size.  I'm thinking of how they would look in my 180, and I feel I would need to add more than 20 of each species.  For example, when I set up my 72 bowfront, I added 30 Rummynose.  They weren't small rummy nose either!  A group of 30 was nice...a perfect number because they were a nice presence in the tank, yet not so many that they were over-powering in numbers.  If I added that group to my 180 tank, however, I'm pretty sure they would look quite insignificant by comparison.

I was thinking the same thing but I would really like to try a bunch of smaller fish in it first. I can always add more tetras and what not later on if I feel the there isn't enough.

Apistos like to hide and stick to sheltered areas of the tank.  I don't have any but when I see the tanks of people who have them, I always have to look for the apistos.  If there's a few in a tank that size, you'll be doing more searching than watching.  The same goes for the cory cats.  I have 6 Sterbae cories in my 72 gallon.  I have to search for them sometimes and it's not even heavily planted any more.

I was actually thinking of adding some more so I have around 12 or so would a 50/50 split be good or should I have 4 to 8? (M to F) I'm not really going for breeding but I would love to have them in there breeding suits haha Again I can always add more so I have like 12-15 of each cory would be a nice site to see, tons of corys racing around! 
Now, the Geophagus are going to be impressive.  I don't know too much about that particular species, so hopefully someone can let you know if 10 would be an acceptable number.  Make sure you use a sand substrate if you're going to get them because they like to sift through the gravel.  #10 Silica from Merkley Building supplies would be ideal and cheap!!  Rinse it really well...and rinse outside because it's REALLY dusty.

I was gonna go with sand to begin with so that is helpful, do you know what colour the sand is? Like for example if its white or if its normal colour?

IMO, big tanks should be used for big fish.  Showcase some nice larger fish and supplement with a few "filler" fish.  When my koi go outside, my 180 is going to eventually have an arowana in it, as well as a few other, yet to be determined, filler fish.

I would have loved an aro and to be honest I was debating on putting just a Jardini in there but I decided I wouldn't like it that much.

It's all a matter of personal taste though.  Some like lots and lots of little fish, others like a few big fish.

I'm stuck inbetween there 

[Pink Punisher]

Decisions, decision ... one reason I like this hobby is that you can do so many different things!


About your equipment questions:
:: Lots of small filters work, but unless you have all those filters already I would rather go with just two big ones. I saw an Eheim 2217 in the c/f lately, that would be a good option.

I'll be picking up two rena xp2 shortly so I'm gonna be using those fore sure, I might check out that Eheim and I can throw my old Ehiem Eco on there as well.

:: Actinics are next to useless in the freshwater world. They do emphasize blue colors, but also boosts algae growth. 6500K daylights will give you the most neutral light, best for greens. I prefer Giesemann aquafloras to enhance red colors; a 10000K bulb will promote blue colors. In your case I would use 4x 4ft bulbs, with 2x daylight and 2x aquaflora.

Alright, sounds good. I only have to buy the light bulbs then! Already got the fixture set up.

Stocking:
:: Tetras: the more the better. They are only really cool in big numbers. Period. Mixing is personal choice. But I would, just like you do it, mix only big numbers.

Agreed, I might make those numbers even larger down the road. I want to have them in there but I don't want them to be focil point so I'll just keep adding 10 at a time or so untilk I find what I like most.

:: Apistos: baenschi are great fish! I had a pair for almost three years. Check out my gallery. You could add even more (up to double). Biggest problem will be to find these guys, I haven't seen them around for a while.

If I can't find them then what might you suggest? I'm erally just looking for a breeding female with lots of yellows. The male isn't as important to be honest 

:: Panaque: Keep in mind that these are pure vegetarians and intensive wood eaters. They also love to chew away many aquatic plants. And they could react sensitive to any meaty diet left over from cories and apistos.

So would bushy/bristle nose be a better option then?


All in all a good combination of fish. There will be lots going on in the tank. You might also want to add some plants, but that's entirely up to you. Good luck!

Plants are a for sure, its just a matter of finding some hardy Amazonion that can live in sand. If worse comes to worse I could also layer with some Eco-complete under but I'd rather not if I don't have to, I'm cheap like that 

[tetroid]

Great ideas for a tank. If I had room for a tank that size, I'd go with something similar, although mine would be pretty much all characins. With tetras, it's a good idea to mix up body shape and behaviours, and I think you've done that. If you did want to drop one species, I'd say go with 75 cardinals or 75 rummynose instead of 40 of one and 35 of the other. They're both torpedo shaped schoolers. That being said, the colour contrast could be interesting. Good call on the nannostomus trifasciatus, by the way. I've kept them for years. They'll each stake out a little section of a plant and dart out to fight each other.

Most of all, I'm intrigued by your choice of ulreyi tetras (aka Broken-line tetra). They're a great choice, and will look really good in a school, but they're quite rare in the trade. I'm not sure I've seen them in stores, except maybe once at Big Al's on Innes. Is there a reason you've chosen them specifically?

[Pink Punisher]

Great ideas for a tank. If I had room for a tank that size, I'd go with something similar, although mine would be pretty much all characins. With tetras, it's a good idea to mix up body shape and behaviours, and I think you've done that. If you did want to drop one species, I'd say go with 75 cardinals or 75 rummynose instead of 40 of one and 35 of the other. They're both torpedo shaped schoolers. That being said, the colour contrast could be interesting. Good call on the nannostomus trifasciatus, by the way. I've kept them for years. They'll each stake out a little section of a plant and dart out to fight each other.

Most of all, I'm intrigued by your choice of ulreyi tetras (aka Broken-line tetra). They're a great choice, and will look really good in a school, but they're quite rare in the trade. I'm not sure I've seen them in stores, except maybe once at Big Al's on Innes. Is there a reason you've chosen them specifically?

Thanks

I chose the Ulrey's simply because I thought they were beautiful fish and would contrast the as you said, torpedo shapes of my other to tetras. On that note though as well I had done no research on how available they were and was going simply off looks 

We seem to think almost the same on stocking for this tank at least as almost everything you said above went through my head when I was picking between fishes. Especially about the Cardinals and Rummynoses.

Spencer

[tetroid]

Ah, I see. Well, as you say, you don't have to get all your characins at once. Part of the fun is the hunt. I've been hunting poecilocharax weitzmani for a couple of years now. Keep an eye on BA Innes in particular - they get rare characins in fairly frequently. The Ulreyi tetras come from Paraguay, so you can ask them when a Paraguayan shipment is coming in. Big Al's seems to get most of its South American stuff from Peru, though, at least judging by the species I've seen.

If you wanted a similar looking fish to H. ulreyi, you could try Hemigrammus pulcher - the Pretty tetra. Sometimes it sells as the Garnet tetra.  It's not super common, but not rare, either. You could also look for the Diamond tetra. Bear in mind that both these guys will look much better in your tank than in the store. Happy hunting!