Cheap way to lower pH?

[Pink Punisher]

I think I might have just stumbled onto something beautiful! 

Has any here ever tried to lower there pH with Sodium bisulfate? It is commonly used in pools to lower the pH. All it does is create a chemical reaction upon mixing with water causing Sulfuric acid to be produced and as you all know Sulfuric acid has a low pH. In short it lowers the pH quite easily. I've been thinking of using this to lower my pH and just keep it in a tub under the tank. This would allow me to have a low pH without the having to get a ton of tannins in the water. I haven't looked into how much it would cost but from Amazon it is about $35 for 15lbs of the stuff and I would imagine that would last me quite some time!

Spencer

[arnold]

WOW,
Is it same stuff?,  http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/s3074.htm

[Pink Punisher]

Nope, thats Sodium bisulfIte note the difference between sulfite and sulfate (which is what I'm talking about)

Sodium bisulfIte is commonly used in wine making to stop oxidization 
Sodium bisulfAte is commonly used to lower the pH of swimming pools

Spencer

[asmackay]

WOW,
Is it same stuff?,  http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/s3074.htm

This is your first post on OVAS?  really?

Why not use injected CO2 to lower ph safely and grow plants at the same time.

[Pink Punisher]

An idea yes but I would think that it can only take it down so far. I would hope to get around 5.5 to 6 for a pH and I'm not sure how potent CO2 injections would be. Always an option though!

Spencer

[asmackay]

CO2 can lower to 5.5 easily.  I use co2 injection and reach 6.0.  Why is 5.5 the goal, not many fish like 5.5 water

[Pink Punisher]

I'll be making an Amazon blackwater stream biotope. How much CO2 do you think would required to lower pH to 5.5 in a 112 gallon tank? Do you need the dH and kH?

Spencer

[asmackay]

I use a 10# CO2 tank on a 75G tank and it injects CO2 for about 8 hours a day to reach 6.0 ph, tank lasts 5-6 months and costs $27 to fill.  I don't inject more than 8 hours since greater than 30 ppm of CO2 will cause fish stress. 

If your water has lower KH it will swing the PH faster using less CO2.

I would target a 6.0 ph as this is safe for most fish you might keep and won't risk CO2 overdose. 

Are you planning on live plants for this biotope tank. with CO2 injection you can grow any plant you want with sufficient lighting.

[Pink Punisher]

Yes I was thinking of incorporating live plants. Various swords seemed to be what I was going for as I don't want a ton of vegetation. Which kinda makes this CO2 thing seem like a waste of money if I'm only gonna be growing quite hardy plants. Would a DIY CO2 canister be strong enough to do this job? Or am I looking at like 4+ canisters?

Spencer

[asmackay]

a 120G is too big for DIY CO2 even 4 would mean constantly refilling them.  pressurrized CO2 is the only way for a tank this big.

[dan2x38]

Lowering pH is harder than raising it. Playing pH is usually worse than leaving it alone. It is sudden and dramatic flucuations in pH that are more harmful than not. Unless you are breeding certain fish lower pH is not an issue even with discuss. Maintaining a stable pH is a better aim.

[Pink Punisher]

I'd like to set up a Amazon biotope so I'd like to it to be fairly close to the real thing. I plan on having Apisto's in there and I'd like them to breed not so much for the fry more so because they are gorgeous looking when breeding. Dan, I seem to recall you making a blackwater tub and you used this for water changes correct? Did you find this to work very well? Or was it more hassle then it was worth?

Spencer

[dan2x38]

It worked great. I was able to maintain water pH and when I stayed on top of it 5.5 pH. I was able to breed apistos, cories and other SA fish. It was simple and cheap to make. No checmicals invoved period. Here are some pics: http://ovas.ca/index.php?action=gallery;su=user;cat=417;u=2243

I was going to try and breed cardinals for a chellenge but my health caused me to sell off the fish room. FrankieWankie bough the Blackwater Generator from me. I never saw him post it for sale. If interested contact me I can flip you his addy.

cheers,
Dan

[Pink Punisher]

Did you find it dumped a lot of tannins into your water? As much as I want a biotope I aslo wanna be able to see into the tank  I can always just include a carbon area in the generator as you called it, to suck up the tannins. So for your generater you used peat moss, pine cones, and almond leave to lower the pH? I'm gonna try and build my own as I have a spare power head I can use and I have a large rubbermaid bin that would perfectly...so long as it fits under the soon to be built stand lol

Spencer

[fischkopp]

To answer your original question: put some peat in a media bag and hang it in your tank. There is nothing cheaper than that (except maybe you go into the woods and collect alder cones, oak leafs, ...), but:

Playing pH is usually worse than leaving it alone.

I will second that.

Unless you are planning to keep sensitive wild caughts there is really no need to alter the pH. In fact, the water supplied in most areas here in Ottawa is so soft that it will settle below 7 within 24h, with the tendency to drop even further due to nitrification. For example: I am monitoring a tank at the moment in which the pH falls down to 5.0 within one week of 90% WC - although this is quite extreme - without doing anything. I keep various different apistos (and most of them are wild caught) in plain tap water and they are just doing great, spawing happily every few weeks.

In short: there are very few fish that will require water treatment beyond prime. But most fish will be better off if you don't worry about it at all. More important than water treatment is the actuall regular water change: lots and often! Worry about that and your fish will be happy!

[ciaus]

+1 to What Fischkopp has said about the easiest and cheapest way to lower the PH, a sock full of peat moss....Yes it adds tannins to the water but a mild tea color can be make some fish colors really "pop"..

There are two main ways to reduce PH in water, one is to use chemicals, and the other is to use elements which will buffer the PH at a desired level.

Chemicals will drop PH, and when the chemical reaction ends, because the source chemical supply has stopped/run out the PH will spike, since the chemical reaction provides no buffer at all.

The use of Peat moss, and driftwood, will reduce the water PH levels, but more slowly, and with the added advantage of providing a buffer.  I use three pieces of driftwood in my 70 gallon tank and the water, with multiple 50% water changes weekly has a pretty stable PH at 6.0.

HTH

Ciaus

[Pink Punisher]

Alright so you've almost got me convinced not to bother its just so bloody hard not to when everything I've read has said has said they need this this and this sort of thing.

The fish I'm gonna be put in the tank are

6 Apistogramma baenschi "Inka"

2 Festivum (Mesonauta festivus)

35 Bleher's Rummynose Tetra (Hemigrammus bleheri)

40 Cardinal Tetra (Paracheirodon axelrodi)

30 Ulrey's Tetra (Hemigrammus ulreyi)

25 Three-Lined Pencilfish (Nannostomus trifasciatus)

15 Marble Hatchet (Carnegiella strigata)

9x Panda Cory (Corydoras panda)

9x Julii Cory (Cordydoras julii)

3 Whiptail/Twig Catfish (Farlowella acus)

2 Bristlenose/Bushynose Plecos (Ancistrus spp.)

I'm sure most of of them would be its just a few that make me question it. So opinions please

Spencer