The overflow noise factor... Arrrrgh.

[HomerJ]

How noisy is an overflow supposed to be?  I am in the process of setting up my tank and I can't believe how noisy the "overflow" is. 

I have the tank drilled on the bottom, with a 1 inch bulkhead.  I had a 1" pvc pipe going up to water level, and it sounded like a toilet flushing.  I tried making a Durso standpipe, and it is not much better.  I also tried a Hofer Gurgle buster, and a Stockman standpipe, but they are all pretty noisy.  Either gurgling or flushing sounds.

Should it be that noisy? 

[Hookup]

Mine are dead silent.  Like 1am in the morning, no noise in the house and you cannot hear them.

The basic design is a durso, but it's wrapped in 360 degrees.

You need
1. 4" to 2" reducer
2. 2" to 1" reducer
3. 1" piece of PVC
4. 3" PVC end cap

Put the 2" to 1" reducer in the 4" to 2" reducer.  This creates a 4" to 1" reducer you can put on your 1" pipe.

This also creates a 4" diameter, or 12.3" circumference overflow.  4*pi

This will help, but not enuf.

Take the 1" piece of PVC and sand one end, the outside, until you can insert it, like a slip fit, into the 4" to 1" overflow you created above.

Cut the1" PVC pipe you sanded down to about 1/2 cm shorter than the top of the overflow when inserted.

Cut teeth into the top of the 1" PVC pipe.


At this point you can run the system and water will flow over the lip of the 4" reducer, fill it and flow into the teeth of the 1" PVC you customized.

The last step, put a 1/32 dia. hole into the top dead center of the 3" PVC cap.  Place the cap into the overflow, resting on top of the 1" PVC pipe with the teeth...

Instantly silent....  Adjust the hole in small increments to tune...


Once you have it perfect, glue the 3" cap to the 1" PVC teeth... Do not glue that into the reducer... You'll want to remove it to clean the teeth by tossing it into the dishwasher.

[HomerJ]

Thanks Hookup. 

That sounds similar to my gurgle buster, but with a much bigger "cup" for the water to flow in.

Where do I find all the parts to do that?  The places close by are pretty pathetic for anything but "standard" size PVC (i.e. likely to be used in a home).

[Hookup]

Um... If memory serves, Lowes in Orleans has the reducer's... and I just picked up a 3" cap from HD on baseline, but I'd bet Lowes has that also.

Should get your silented right down..

[Hookup]

Is there only drain line?  1" down?

If so, you'll also likely have to decrease your return-pump's flow... the gurgle is normal and will be silent from above... the "flush" is a factor of too much flow backing up in the pipe until a sypon is created then the syphon is 1000x faster flowing so it empties (flush)...

Just back-off your return pump's flow until you no longer get the flushing noise, then install the above to get rid of all sound...

If you have 2 drain lines, then I have a slight modification to the above...

[HomerJ]

I only have 1 drain line.  I'll try and visit Lowes.  Darn thing will have costed me more in gas than parts ;-b

Thanks for the replies.

[JetJumper]

Where do I find all the parts to do that?  The places close by are pretty pathetic for anything but "standard" size PVC (i.e. likely to be used in a home).

Lowes is great

If you can't find what you need there I ordered all my stuff from Home Hardware.  Go on their website.  Get the part numbers and call a store and have it brought it.  But try lowes first.  I love their selection

[HomerJ]

One thing I'm still wondering is if my drain bulkhead itself is large enough.  I can have 4" cups all I want, but the water still has to go through one inch tubing at some point.  From what I looked up before, 1" should handle the max flow from my pump (max is 350gph minus about 4ft of head).  I'd hate to have to redrill it for a larger one, but I guess adding a 2nd drain my be another option.  If hookup's idea fails too, I'll blame the bulkhead size and go from there....

dammit, last week of vacation and failure all around!!!!

[Hookup]

The question needs two comments.

1) The idea of a 1" pipe handling the flow has to be based upon either a siphon or something else.. i'm guessing on a siphon.

2) you are not running a siphon, nor do you want to.

To sustain a siphon you need to supply the exact amount, or a bit more, water than the siphon can handle.  A bit more, would flood the tank, getting the exact amount, would be pretty difficult and in practical purposes, impossible.

So to get a siphon you have to go with a bit more flow than the 1" pipe can handle, which leads to my question above about having a second drain, to handle the overflow as a trickle.



In your case, we have to run the flow at less than a siphon..  And from a noise point of view, you need to have a low flow so you do not get the flushing noises described above. 

[JetJumper]

Maybe a picture of what you have would help us all

This is what I have and its pretty quiet.

[Hookup]

Good photos Jet.

That';s pretty much the same idea, just I recommend a much larger "cup" for increased surface skimming performance.  But that is 100% the design as far as I can tell from the photos.

[HomerJ]

The question needs two comments.

1) The idea of a 1" pipe handling the flow has to be based upon either a siphon or something else.. i'm guessing on a siphon.

2) you are not running a siphon, nor do you want to.

For 1), the "idea" is based on reading the forums, and a few websites.  I'll agree that it's not always clear, and as you say, what I'm seeing is probably based on a full syphon... (that would empty the tank in about... hmmm... 10 seconds.

2) I'm not trying to, but I'm having a hard time seeing how, if I'm letting air in the system, I can avoid hearing the slurping/gurgling/flushing sounds.


To sustain a siphon you need to supply the exact amount, or a bit more, water than the siphon can handle.  A bit more, would flood the tank, getting the exact amount, would be pretty difficult and in practical purposes, impossible.

So to get a siphon you have to go with a bit more flow than the 1" pipe can handle, which leads to my question above about having a second drain, to handle the overflow as a trickle.

If I did have a second drain, wouldn't the second drain recreate the same problem I'm currently having, i.e. gurgling sounds for whatever doesn't get handled by the first drain?  I'm on my second day messing with all this, and if all I need is a 2nd drain to make it simpler, I'll empty the tank and drill it dammit ;-b

In your case, we have to run the flow at less than a siphon..  And from a noise point of view, you need to have a low flow so you do not get the flushing noises described above. 

So the idea is to close the ball valve on the return line until I get acceptable noise from what still looks like acceptable flow?

As for pics of what I have, I tried 2 things, Durso and Stockman standpipes/Hofer gurgle buster.  They all sound like a teenager drinking from a slurpie.

[Hookup]

One thing to consider is that low-flow amounts of water will "stick" to the outside edges of the 1" pipe, and allow for a "tube" of air down the center of the pipe.  When this is occurring, the noise can be very small, to none.  90* elbows can get you into trouble for obvious reasons.

As you increase flow, this "feature" of physics (there is a name for it) breaks, but I know that i can get 700-1000gph in a 1.5" pipe, though 1" is quite a bit smaller.

So the goal is to get this occurring.

When you hear the flushing, the above described principal is crashing in the pipe...

SLOW DOWN THE RETURN PUMP... close the valve you installed on the return, to stop this...

that ALONE will reduce your noise drastically.

[HomerJ]

Maybe the bends are killing me.  I have a 90 which brings everything horizontal, and 2x 45 bends to bring things back vertical once they've traveled sideways a bit.  I should probably move everything over so the sump is right under the drain, to keep everything as straight as possible.  I'll play with everything AGAIN tonight... sigh...

[jimskoi]

This is what we use on all of our set ups that we build.They work great and are easy to clean.They fit onto 1 1/2" PVC.The top works out to 2".This gives you lots of surface skimming and very little noise.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[HomerJ]

That's pretty cool Jim.  Where can I find these parts? 

[jimskoi]

I get them ordered in from the U.S.
Have to tries Lowes or Home depot?I know they dont have them in this area.

[Rybren]

You can get the 1 1/2" - 2" adapter in black ABS at HD, Lowes, or Rona.  IMHO, the ABS is great - it blends in well with a black background and coraline grows on it pretty quickly.

For PVC, you'll probably have to go to PVC Plus on Colonnade or make the trip to HD in Massena or Lowes in Ogdensburg.

[JetJumper]

http://www.homehardware.ca/Products/index/show/product/I3262491/name/grate_pvc_gas_system636_3

http://www.homehardware.ca/Products/index/show/product/I3262617/name/coupling_pvc_gas_system636_3x2

http://www.homehardware.ca/Products/index/show/product/I3262490/name/grate_pvc_gas_system636_2

Or

http://www.homehardware.ca/Products/index/show/product/I3211170/name/grate_drain_abs_pvc_3_wht

[Hookup]

Even if Jim never built another tank, he's still built more tanks than I'll ever see... So do not take offense, but my opinion is that a 2" diam is only 6" of skimming o. The surface... In smaller systems that's good, but the general agreement is more is more... Hence the coast to coast designs

I'm saying if you can, go with more... 4" diam is 12.5" of skimming, not even the width of most tanks... Which is a minimal design for coast to coast...

Again, this is just going with more is more...   Your millage may vary..