Name change time?

[NanoSF]

I have never paid much attention to the Cichlid world until I went to the auction and heard the Black Convicts Cichlid being called out. Thought that was an unfortunate name, until I hear the scientific name has Nigrofasciatus as part of it. Now that can not be a coincidence. To have Nigro in the name and call them Black, well that is probably common. But to now connect Nigro to convicts that is just very unfortunate. I was just a bit taken back by the unfortunate combination in this fish name.

[Nerine]

nigrofasciatus literally means black-striped...which they are ... and there are several fish that go with that tacked on to the end of their name...cardnial, danio, cichlid, and something else which eludes my brain at the moment!

the convict part of their name came from the British prison uniforms (or at least one source says...) hence black striped convicts for the uniform.

[NanoSF]

Ya I figured there was a reason for it all but just doesn't sound right considering the connection. I guess it is nigro not negro but it all sounds the same. So hearing black convicts for sale, then Nigrofasciatus, well it was just surprising. I know there is no racist suggestions there or anything, it just sounded surprising.

[Nerine]

there are several fish out there that make you say Hmmmm

Black Moor is the one that causes my eyebrow to raise more than the convicts...

[NanoSF]

Ya scientific names go so far back into history I'm sure these things weren't even considered. These days it all just sound a bit "fishy" (pun intended)

[Nerine]

yeah, some things weren't considered racist or they didn't care if they were!!! From doing a lot of genealogy there was a lot of segregation and people were called things that today we frown upon!

wonder how many fish names have been changed though!

[Saltcreep]

Let's not forget that 'nigro' or 'negro' is just 'black' in another language. I remember a few years ago changing a toner cartridge at work. The colour on the box was listed as 'Negro', made in Mexico, I think. There was a news story a while back where a man wanted an Ontario vanity plate with 'SCHWARTZ' on it. The government turned him down because his own surname could be considered racist in another language.

[Stussi613]

Interesting topic.  It's funny that the perception, or perceived use, of a term can cause debate.  The scientific term of the Black Convict Cichlid is only considered taboo because of the cultural connotation.  I remember seeing a show on Discovery World HD that followed Jeremy Piven the actor on his journey through India.  He went to an area of a town that was a haven for Jewish people in times past.  He was aghast to see ornamentation on the arhcitecture that included Swastika's.  The reality is that the Swastika is an ancient symbol in India and holds, nor did it hold until the early 1900's, no reference to the disgusting use of it by the Nazi's.  Once this was explained to him the irony of the situation dawned on him.  A haven for his people was adorned with the very symbol that the persecutors of his people corrupted...to me a great example of how and why symbols and stereotypes are only powerful if we allow them to be.

This also reminds me of the recent debate to change the terminolgy used in Mark Twain's Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.  Is it wrong to change a classic piece of literature because it uses a term that was de rigeur at the time that the book was written?  Some say yes, others say no.   

[NanoSF]

Interesting stories in the last two posts. I didn't think about much more than just how is sounded at the time. Me and the person I was with looked at each other and thought that can't be right. But yes, we are talking about a universal term not just North American English.

In general I am against the argument that people are oversensitive or over over politically correct. It seems like an excuse for ignorance to me most of the time. It is not hard to be considerate of others perception. In this case I don't think there is any malice in the term just something that put together from historical origins came out as "unfortunate" as I stated before.

Maybe I shouldn't have called for a name change now that I look at it, but I still find it unfortunate. We don't need any more associations with negro/nigro and blacks, and certainly not with being a convict thrown in there.

It makes me think of an old stand up comic performance I will never forget. It concluded with the suggestion that pool was even racists since the white ball sinks the black ball to win the game in the end. Obviously an unfortunate coincidence, but something to think about? White will always be associate with all that is good and pure, and black just happens to be the opposite.

[Nerine]

I don't really find it unfortunate...the convict part sure, but it really was due to the prison uniforms, not towards a race...so to me it was just an observation, but I wasn't there during the naming of the fish!!

nigrofasciatus is fine in my mind, because how else does one say black stripes? Latin has been around a lot longer than other languages, and despite people taking it out of schools, it's not going anywhere as Latin and Greek are still used for medical and scientific purposes!

bah, if someone can find pool racist, one can racism in pretty much anything...but this is an interesting topic you've brought up

[mseguin]

Here's one that did have its common name changed (a very rare occurence)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epinephelus_itajara
Used to be known as the jewfish.

I will say that changing the name of the convict seems unnecessary. nigrofasciatus is a scientific terminology, and the common name to me has always been convict cichlid, not black convict.

[Fishnut]

Black Moor is the one that causes my eyebrow to raise more than the convicts...

I really hope I don't sound naive to ask this, but why?

[Stussi613]

I really hope I don't sound naive to ask this, but why?

There is a racial connotation to the modern use of the term moor, which was historically associated with North Africans invaders. Think of the Morgan Freeman character in Robin Hood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moors

[robt18]

I had never even thought of the association before... but the latin terminology was around before it was offensive and really isn't meant to offend... its a proper term in the latin world. If people want to try to change the common name then they're of course able to try... however no offensive implications really are tied to it.

And there are white and pink convicts too (and marble....)

[rockgarden]

It's not just in the fish world either. In St. Patrick's Day thread that I read, there are multiple thread entries discussing the use of the term Paddy Wagon.

Ron