advise on setting up a 20 gal tank for apistos?

[motoman]

I'll like to get a pair of small apistos or blue rams for my soon to be empty 20 gal. Looking for some info on how I should build my tank up? Water conditions, plants, caves, possible tank mates such as shirmp, cories and maybe a few other fish that would be compatible, should I stop my CO2, etc. I was looking around on this page but when I searched a lot of stuff came up that wasn't really answering my quesitons. Anyone know of a good site to look at or recommendations for info?
Thanks

[Julie]

Cichlid forum has good pics of the different species.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/index.php

[BigDaddy]

Well, if you go rams or apistos, you'll have the same setup really.

They both like a heavily planted tank if you can provide it.  A few smooth surfaces like slate for breeding sites is a plus.

I'd go with a top dwelling fish like pencilfish as a target/dither fish.

Some driftwood will naturally bring the pH down a little, which is good if you have harder water.

No need to turn off CO2, they aren't that sensitive to pH changes.

Stay away from shrimp with apistos... they'll treat them like lunch.  My rams stayed away from my amano shrimp, but my apistos chomped down on them.

[Julie]

What is the apisto in your avatar bd?

[motoman]

Thanks for the tips. I'm using RO water right now so it should be nice and soft. I've got pool sand in the bottom which I figured I'd reuse as well. I'll take your advise and move my little shrimp to my 30 gal comm. tank.
I'll check out that cichlid site too.

[motoman]

what do you mean by a target/dither fish? Why would I want that?
Aren't rams and apisto's fairly relaxed and get along with others for the most part?

[Julie]

Dithers will make the apistos. more relaxed in their surroundings.
Dithers in a discus tank are more like snacks.

Julie

[mseguin]

If I make a suggestion, don't mess around with ur water conditions too much (other than keeping it clean), especially if u get captive bred fish. If yuo can easily get ur water to be low pH low hardness, then good, but its more important to keep the water conditions stable than to make sure you have blackwater conditions.

[BigDaddy]

What is the apisto in your avatar bd?

Its a panduro

[BigDaddy]

what do you mean by a target/dither fish? Why would I want that?
Aren't rams and apisto's fairly relaxed and get along with others for the most part?

A dither fish is a fish that makes the fish feel more secure (if there are other fish swimming around, the chance a predator is nearby is unlikely)

A target fish is a fish a cichlid can release its aggression on (that can get away faster than it) instead of other cichlids.

Rams are okay in the community.  Apistos too.  But they are cichlids, and they can get aggressive.  Some apistos are very aggressive toward other apistos.. or even other fish.

[motoman]

So I'm assuming that these pencil fish enjoy the same type of habitats? Would they need some open space rather than have the tank crambed with plants? Can I stil have cories in the tank with the apistos and/or rams?
My thought is to have the rams or the apistos as a show pair and then get some other fish for company or for purpose like cories to help keep the tank clean. I'm using RO water right now but I was going to continue to mix it 1/2 with my tap water so if I continued to do that then the water would be stable. I'm not really looking to breed these fish now. If is happens that's great but it's not my goal. I'd just like to have some really nice showy fish with lots of colours. Same reason I had a school of 15 tetras in my 30 gal.
Thoughts?

[mseguin]

Pencilfish or teras wil like the same conditions, as will cories and\or plecos. They will like a mix of plants and open space, although plants will make them feel secure.

[Julie]

My 2 cents on the ro is you don't need it unless you are breeding these south americans.  Makes for unstable parameters especially if your own water is not that alkaline to begin with.
What are your parameters?  I keep spawning discus in GH 15, ph 7.5-8.

Julie

[Woody]

I have half a dozen species of Apisto's and another half a dozen species of Corydoras and they all are healthy with the parameters of Gatineau water.
I don't know what your water parameters are but you can narrow down your search and make a short list of beautiful fish that can be kept without having to use RO water.
To be honest my favourite pair is Apisto borelli. With the males blue colour and finnage and the female always yellow, they always catch my eye.  And it took a while as I purchased them young, but they produce a viable spawn every ten days, and I use tap water, aged twenty fours.

Woody

[Julie]

Would you post a pic of your tank?

tx,
Julie

[BigDaddy]

Yup, my borellii spawn every other week as well......

[zapisto]

Well some of you know me , i am a Dwarf lover

here is my experience :


Species i dont have anymore

• Apistogramma nijsseni- Breed
  
• Apistogrammoides pucallpaensis -  Breed
  
• Dicrossus filamantosus - Breed
  
• Apistogramma agassizii (diverse forms) -  Breed
  
• Apistogramma cacatuoides Triple red -  Breed
  
• Apistogramma caetei F1- Breed
  
• Apistogramma bitaenatia F0 - Breed
  
• Pelvicachromis sacrimontis - Breed
  
• Apistogramma agassizii rouge-Breed
  
• Apistogramma Eunotus Orange tail F1 - Breed
  
• neolemprologus brevis- Breed
  
• Apistogramma Linkei
  
• Apistogramma diplotaenia F1
  
• Badis badis scarlet
  
• Paranannochromis caudifasciatus F0
  
• Apistogramma  Sp. Pebas
  
• Laetacara Curviceps F0 - Breed
  
• Apistogramma maciliensis F1
  

species i working on now or just work on

• Apistogramma Staecki F1- Breed
  
• Apistogramma Viejita II F0 - Breed
  
• Apistogramma Hogsloi II F1- Breed
  
• Apistogramma Hognei F1- Breed
  
• Apistogramma trifasciata F0 - Breed
  
• Apistogramma  Juruensis F0 - Breed
  
• Apistogramma macmasteri F0 & F1 - Breed
  
• Apistogramma Borelli - Breed
  
• Apistogramma cacatuoides Triple red - Breed
  
• Apistogramma agassizii triple red - Breed
  
• Apistogramma panduro F1 - Breed
  
• Apistogramma maciliensis F0 - Breed
  
• Laetacara dorsigera F0-Breed
  
• Taeniacara candidi F1 - Breed
  
• Pelvicachromis pulcher - Breed
  
• Pelvicachromis sacrimontis - Breed
  
• Crenicichla regani- Breed
  

species i will work on this winter

• Apistogramma tucurui I & II
  
• Badis badis scarlet
  
• Apistogramma gibbiceps
  
• dicrosus maculatus
  
• and any new apisto i did not try yet
  

so if you have any question i will happy to answer you.

[BigDaddy]

Zap:

I'll buy some of your F1 panduros off you once they get big enough.....

[gvv]

OK,

Somebody already knew I'm nasty sometimes, so...  To make them breed and to get fry is a little bit different. I also have all my my fish bred, but it does not mean I have something for sale.
How much is Apistogramma nijsseni FS?

[zapisto]

OK,

Somebody already knew I'm nasty sometimes, so...  To make them breed and to get fry is a little bit different. I also have all my my fish bred, but it does not mean I have something for sale.
How much is Apistogramma nijsseni FS?

i dont know you
but i will not consider this answer as an attack
when i say breed , i say at least 10 or more fry reach 1 month old and for most of them quit my house with a sexable size.

after this little clarification i will answer your question :
nijsseni are ussually  sell for 10$ sexable.

BigDaddy: unfortunetly i empty the panduro tank they all go to a wholesaler and i have only a pair left in my 4feet community tank
who as you can imagine cannot sucessfull breed due to the population present with them.

but i can try found some if you want.

I have some wild apisto who will arrive soon and also some nice other dwarf (ie: D. maculatus)

i empty most of my actual species to make space for new dwarf i never try.