Dry Start Method

[magnosis]

Since Trevor suggested I try the DSM on my new 20g tank, I've been documenting myself quite a bit. 

One thing that still eludes me is that the majority of articles I read strongly suggest using ADA Aquasoil.  Needless to say, this stuff is not only crazy expensive it's also very difficult to get around here.  Others have had success with mineralized top soil, or fluorite mixed 50/50 with earthworm castings.

Now I don't really feel like tearing up my hardscape once more to replace the substrate


Is it possible to provide enough nutrients to the plants in a Dry Start by supplementing the water with dry powder ferts ?

One problem I see is that I won't be able to mix macros & micros in the water column together - although Flourite should provide most if not all the needed trace elements (is this correct ?)

What concentration of KNO3, KH2PO4 and K2SO4 should I add to the water that I use to saturate the substrate ?  Should I just use the basic EI concentrations ? Double dose ? More ?

Thanks in advance.

[TLe041]

I did a dry start on two tanks with Aquasoil in the past with great results, so I've had some experience with this.

You can use any of the substrates you've listed. The important thing is to go very lightly on the ferts. Only mix your dry ferts according to the amount of water that you're adding (by spritzing), not what volume of water you think is in the tank. This means that you'll be using very minute quantities of fertilizer. I wouldn't even go as high as EI dosage.

The important thing to do is to cover the tank with saran wrap (poke small holes to allow for constant air exchange) and lightly mist the plants twice a day. Keep the water level just beneath the substrate. Any water above the substrate line will lead to algae growth (which will be visible later on when it's time to flood the tank).

Hope this helps!

[magnosis]

Thanks ! That's good info, especially with regards to poking holes in the saran wrap and keeping the water level below the leaves & substrate.  More than a few people reported white web-like mold destroying their HC, because of high humidity or flooding the stems & leaves.

About dosing, you're right we should always keep the quantities relative to the amount of water we're dealing with, tank size is irrelevant when calculating fertilizers.

I did not think that misting would provide enough water to nourish the plants and because of that the substrate needed to be very rich. This is not the case with the Fluorite I'm using.  But I will follow your advise and dose only lightly in the substrate.  If there are big deficiencies the plants will give sign of it anyways and I can adjust the mist water mixture.

[dan2x38]

The whole idea of EI dosing is for heavy - Heavily planted tanks... jungles!!! If not you will get algae. You must start slowly. You shouldn't use macro and micro at the same time. The PO4 changes the Fe from chelated to non-chelated so it is not taken up by the plants... think I got that right it has been awhile... it usually a good idea to do macro one day then micro another or at least 4 to 6 hours between the two different types of ferts - so I read.

Also if I recall by supplementing together you can change the Fe form and then it can build up and even become toxic to the plants and fish. You got to remember we are adding unnatural high levels of ferts with EI dosing so you have to look for a balance and follow some guidelines.

I never started EI dosing on a tank for months after initial setup especially usually specially grow substrates. You easily do your own mineralized soil too just using your oven but the wife might get a little annoyed... LOL OH that AGA substrate was awesome but I had to order.

[magnosis]

Yes Dan I know, been using EI for a while it's very clearly documented why macros & micros can't be mixed on the same day, this is what I meant by:

I won't be able to mix macros & micros in the water column together

Besides, someone correct me if I'm wrong (I don't mean to be anal about this) but EI can be used for *any* planted tank.  The suggested dosage is just a starting point for the average tank.  Everyone needs to adjust it for their specific setup, no two tanks are ever equal.  For instance I started dosing 1/2 of the base EI amounts for 40-60g in my tank (a 59g), because I am not heavily planted.  I'm gradually adjusting my mixtures based on what the plants are telling me.

But that's not the point of this tread - no offence Dan you're input is always appreciated of course


I was asking what concentration of NPK should be added to the water that is used to saturate the substrate.  Sorry if I wasn't clear.

[magnosis]

I planted my HC this weekend, going DSM with Fluorite and fertilized water in the substrate:
NO3 : ~25 ppm
K+: ~25ppm
PO4 : ~4 ppm

Micros will be provided by the Fluorite.

I'm a little worried about the water level.  The first 2" at the front has water level up to the substrate (a bit too much). But all the substrate behind that (80-90% of the area) is sloped up and goes as high as 1.5" above the water level.  In comparison, it's a little bit like Tom's setup except I have no visible water at the front, and the rear of my tank is 1-2" higher than his.

I will probably need to mist the areas that are higher up only.  The lower parts might see some white mold, I hope not.

[morrom]

Really looking foward to this, keep us posted and with pics  !
I am intrested it how it comes out, as I want to try this method in my future tank set ups.

[magnosis]

Will do !

I'll post pics and progress in my build thread.

[dan2x38]

EI dosing is so you do not have to test anything that is the whole idea. Yes there is a balance but you might want to look more at this type of dosing - http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/PMDD.htm The 'Poor man's Dosing Drops'.

I too look forward to the pics always enjoy watching a great plant build. Now that I do not have planted tanks I live vicariously through you and other plant folks...

[morrom]

Thanks for the Link Dan
I have planted tanks and I still live vicariously through others, cause I simply dont have time for as many tanks as I would like.
One thing I have learned so far, high tech high mantance at least in my case. Dame dwarf hair grass grows crazy fast!

[magnosis]

Yes good point Dan.  I mentionned EI just because of simplicity, I know exactly how much macros and micros are added per dose X per water volume Y (thanks, Excel !) so it's very easy for me to calculate how much of my pre-mixed home-made solutions I need to add to X volume of water to get the ppms of nutrients I want.

[TLe041]

I'm a little worried about the water level.  The first 2" at the front has water level up to the substrate (a bit too much). But all the substrate behind that (80-90% of the area) is sloped up and goes as high as 1.5" above the water level.

You'll have to tilt the tank back by placing something along the front bottom edge. That will help get the water level relatively even.

I did this and had no problems with mold or algae.