Great another storm!

brotherluv · July 20, 2011, 09:26:02 PM

It's very interesting to see someone so quick to believe something. Just because someone gets paid an obscene amount of money to come up with predetermined conclusion doesn't mean you have to believe it. How could they possibly know it is 740 000 year old data? the article gives no data only their "conclusions" It seems as precise as carbon dating...they take samples of the earths crust which they believe to be millions of years old...right in the middle of their sample is a petrified tree...going through what they think is millions of years of history...makes no sense and is exceptionally inaccurate. Keep believing everything you read

Darth · July 20, 2011, 09:30:00 PM

The same cOncept can be said about the bible

brotherluv · July 20, 2011, 09:32:45 PM

That's a completely different thread.

Greatwhite · July 20, 2011, 09:34:09 PM

Quote from: Darth on July 20, 2011, 09:30:00 PM
The same cOncept can be said about the bible

ya, don't go there.

I'll start in about aliens and the sun.

JetJumper · July 20, 2011, 09:57:55 PM

Quote from: Greatwhite on July 20, 2011, 08:39:41 PM
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity"
— Abraham Lincoln

haha Can you verify for me please he said that

JetJumper · July 20, 2011, 10:00:00 PM

Lets put our minds together and create a time machine.. and we can determine the data for ourselves.. Hows that? I am sure we can talk to our Alien Overlords from Alpha Centari

Greatwhite · July 20, 2011, 10:01:33 PM

Quote from: brotherluv on July 20, 2011, 09:26:02 PM
It's very interesting to see someone so quick to believe something. Just because someone gets paid an obscene amount of money to come up with predetermined conclusion doesn't mean you have to believe it. How could they possibly know it is 740 000 year old data? the article gives no data only their "conclusions" It seems as precise as carbon dating...they take samples of the earths crust which they believe to be millions of years old...right in the middle of their sample is a petrified tree...going through what they think is millions of years of history...makes no sense and is exceptionally inaccurate. Keep believing everything you read

The trick is to read publications from all perspectives and come to your own conclusion. When you do this, it's also important to realize that people will have their own perspective on world issues and that although you may not agree with those perspectives - they are not necessarily wrong. That is the beautiful thing about a debate, is it allows people to express their opinions.

By saying "how can they know it's 740,000 year old data", you're showing a lack of research on your own part... That's like asking "how do they know that tree is 100 years old, and 75 years ago there was an exceptionally dry summer??" well - they have ways of knowing how old things are outside of carbon dating...

With ice core samples, you can tell how old they are the same way you can tell how old a tree is. Count the layers. Then, confirm that with carbon dating. Ice absorbs greenhouse gas when it freezes, so it's actually easy with the right equipment to see how the greenhouse gas levels were 1000 years ago, or even the average temperature and how much snowfall there was that winter.

(and you can tell that 75 years ago was a dry year from a tree by the width of the 75th ring from the middle... Narrow ring means there wasn't alot of rain, wide ring means it was a wet year - fyi)

Darth · July 20, 2011, 10:02:59 PM

all I am saying is that everyone is saying none of this can be verified yet we believe the same goes for every religious belief out there, so I say again lets just all agree to disagree and go back to what the topic was really about

NanoSF · July 20, 2011, 10:04:10 PM

brotherluv - Do you just assume everything is untrue no matter how many people in main stream science believe the same thing. This is not up for interpretation. It is widely accepted. It is a fairly easy process actually, and there isn't anyone other than radicals that argue everything in science who don't believe this. No matter how proven something is you just refuse to believe it because it proved you wrong. You only believe whatever proves your point and you disregard everything else.

Quote from: brotherluv on July 20, 2011, 09:26:02 PM
How could they possibly know it is 740 000 year old data?

How could they know? It's like a tree, it is all there in the sample. The years are stacked on top of one another. I don't believe everything I read, but I don't ignore facts out of ignorance either. I mean I don't believe anything you write, so I guess I don't believe everything I read.

BTW who exactly do you think is benefiting from science making discoveries on climate change? Where is all this obscene amounts of money coming from and why? It makes no sense there is nothing to be gained from it unless you think the solar panel companies are billions of dollars per years companies trying to trick everyone into thinking there is problems with the environment. On the other hand it is easy to see who would benefit from discrediting the science. Oil companies selling fossil fuels to burn. Now there's a group of billions of dollars a year companies.

Darth · July 20, 2011, 10:04:32 PM

so your sayin is that we should cut down trees to see what the weather was years ago?? ( I am just kidding I know this is not what was implied)

Greatwhite · July 20, 2011, 10:06:44 PM

Quote from: Darth on July 20, 2011, 10:04:32 PM
so your sayin is that we should cut down trees to see what the weather was years ago?? ( I am just kidding I know this is not what was implied)

only the nice ones, although it appears that Mother Nature is taking care of knocking down trees already.

NanoSF · July 20, 2011, 10:11:27 PM

Quote from: Darth on July 20, 2011, 10:02:59 PM
all I am saying is that everyone is saying none of this can be verified yet we believe the same goes for every religious belief out there, so I say again lets just all agree to disagree and go back to what the topic was really about

Well some science is %100 not arguable. Much of it is 98%, and a fair amount is 50/50. Faith on the other hand is 100% unprovable. That's what makes it faith.

Maybe to move on we can start complaining about the heat an humidity wave we are in right now

Greatwhite · July 20, 2011, 10:18:04 PM

Quote from: NanoSF on July 20, 2011, 10:11:27 PM
Well some science is %100 not arguable. Much of it is 98%, and a fair amount is 50/50. Faith on the other hand is 100% unprovable. That's what makes it faith.

Maybe to move on we can start complaining about the heat an humidity wave we are in right now

My lovely wife decided that since she wasn't getting her precious flyers to see what sales are coming, that she'd call the flyer dudes and deliver them in our neighborhood herself. I told her from the start that there would come a day where the $20 a week that she gets paid to deliver 80 flyers wouldn't be worth it......

And today, she saw tomorrow's weather forecast.

"i don't want to be delivering them in 46 degrees with humidex!" I certainly wouldn't want to go out and do anything with temperatures like that!!!!!

see?? right again. I just didn't expect that day to come on a sunny summer day.

dan2x38 · July 20, 2011, 10:33:35 PM

Wow I am gone for 10 hrs and look at all the interesting banter...

No matter what any of you say I am impressed no one has gotten rude and this thread has been fun to follow. It is cool to see debate and no one become offensive or defensive.

OK Darth your really trying to work that religion angle in here...

maybe global warming was caused when the Red Sea was parted? That would mess up a lot of temperatures and cause a disruption somewhere.

GreatWhite your giving up us all? LOL We got to try to save things - something... I would love to swim in the Ottawa River all season long or even lake Ontario. It would be nice to not see so much garbage when the snow melts and dog crap too. In other words we should not give up because others are doing nothing. As for aliens look for the thread on tin foil hats perfect place to discuss that topic... LOL Personally it wasn't the aliens but the Russians messing with the weather.

Sorry you two had to pick on someone.

As for the ice age wasn't it triggered by a Yellowstone eruption or was it the meteor crashing to Earth creating the Cumberland Gap? It was more of sudden thing wasn't it?

I for one enjoy this open debate and it is cool when it is not attackive but an exchange of ideas and info.

Darth · July 20, 2011, 10:40:02 PM

I am not trying to throw religion in there it was more of just a comparison as this is an endless debate, and in the end is going to serve no purpose then people puffing up their chests to prove who is right, when in the end everyone is partially right, and partially wrong

Greatwhite · July 20, 2011, 10:53:29 PM

Dan... You want to swim in the Ottawa river year round, yet we may very well have beachfront tropical property after 2012 when the entire planet shifts its crust. Aim for the stars, buddy!

I have it on good authority that we in Ottawa will be safe... Can't say the same for most of the US and Europe.

I've already declared my life long allegiance to the Nerubian race, so I think we're all covered.

Darth's right in his comparison between this global warming debate and .. well.. any discussion on religion. The only difference is, I don't think that any wars have started as a result of a disagreement about global warming.

I think that there's at least one person who has read this thread who had learned something as a result of reading this thread...

magnosis · July 20, 2011, 11:08:57 PM

One important point that should get more attention:

Storms will keep coming. Quite possibly more of them, and stronger....

What can we gain from this ? How can we use it to our advantage ? How can we harness this infinite source of electricity ?

Our current ways of transforming various forces into electricity, and delivering it, is complicated, costly, ugly, dirty and damaging for the planet.
Storms on the other hand are clean, free, infinite and wonderful to watch :-)

Yet we've never quite figured out how to use them :''(

Greatwhite · July 20, 2011, 11:17:17 PM

Quote from: magnosis on July 20, 2011, 11:08:57 PM
One important point that should get more attention:

Storms will keep coming. Quite possibly more of them, and stronger....

What can we gain from this ? How can we use it to our advantage ? How can we harness this infinite source of electricity ?

Our current ways of transforming various forces into electricity, and delivering it, is complicated, costly, ugly, dirty and damaging for the planet.
Storms on the other hand are clean, free, infinite and wonderful to watch :-)

Yet we've never quite figured out how to use them :''(

VERY good point. +74 for it. (no i have no idea what that means, just like it took me a year to understand LOL-speak)

We can harness wind when it's steady with windmills. They are popping up in fields all over, these days. However, since storms are unpredictable - where do you put a storm catcher?? My suggestion would be to surround trailer parks with specialized windmills to capture and store energy from tornadoes.

The energy would have to be stored, since it's not a constant source like electric generators in a dam...

brotherluv · July 20, 2011, 11:33:02 PM

It is groups like the UN that I'm referring to...Like socialist governments...like the scientists themselves who raise money for their expeditions. When you've pleaded for grants and donations it stands to reason you're going to slant your conclusions. Otherwise you would have wasted the money in the donors mind anyway. The methods used to come to these conclusions are beyond the comprehension of the average person. Like someone said...look at all angles and draw a conclusion. The weather is constantly changing...this is fact...everything else is open to interpretation.

dan2x38 · July 21, 2011, 08:13:56 AM

As for trailer parks.. I was living in Edmonton in 87 (?) when a tornado hit. It was Fri. before the July long weekend. The tornado touched down first in the Southend wiping out a huge trucking terminal. Then it picked up and circled around the city to the east avoiding downtown thank God. But it hit a trail park in the Eastend killing 26 people. The strange thing in the news and pictures you saw the trailers turned to rubble unrecognizable as a structure of any type but just beside that a trailer untouched with the garbage can lids still in place.

I was living in the Westend there were several funnel clouds spotted and we were informed to head to our basements and lower part of any buildings. It was very freakin' scary that day let me tell ya. I was off work for the long weekend so took my daughter to the part. It was around 3pm and it turned so dark and muggy you cut the air with a knife as they say. I told her (she was 5) it's going to rain we got to leave - she didn't want to of course. Before I got to the door maybe 20 meters it started to hail first small but in seconds golfball size. I had to cover her face and head with my t'shirt pulled over her head and protect her with my arms too. The windows were moving as if they were breathing. It was a walk-up apartment building i went upstairs turned on the news closed all the windows. They said on the news head to basement and gave the areas ours was one. Once there the radio said do not close the windows the pressure will build and they will blow out. So past the windows upstairs opened the windows and the curtains went straight out parallel to the floor. Back down past those damn windows again. The kids were all crying and people were freaked. It passed then we got the news of the destruction. What a day... mother nature has a temper so do not anger her!