Great another storm!

[washefuzzy]

I live on the upper floors of an apartment building. It was amazing watching the storm come in. The building must of been swaying because of the winds because the water was sloshing around in my fish tank. Luckily it wasn't enough to make the water spill over the top!

[magnosis]

I got out to shut the car windows 2 minutes before the storm hit, and the clouds were absolutely spectacular to watch, never seen anything like it.  A few hundred meters ahead of the cold front I could see the storms diving down towards the earth, getting really low, and then roll up again, it was like The Day After Tomorrow just an order of magnitude less intense (and... for real this time)


In my opinion, there is absolutely *nothing* that humans can do to prevent these storms. There are literally millions of variables involved.  It's not a simple formula like "low pollution = less storms" or anything like that !

Besides.. I don't know why many people say this storm was not predicted 

I was watching the weather channel 1h prior: there was a violent storm watch, there was satellite imagery showing it coming our way, there were warnings of winds > 100 km/h....  So yeah, it was predicted fairly accurately I would say.


That said, I just looove storms ! ;-)   Except when people get hurt and stuff gets damaged, obviously !!  But watching the clouds, lightning bolts, gusts of winds and such for me its a blast.   Just... not enough to become a storm chaser, these guys are nuts !!

[Nerine]

I love storms too!!!! When the last big one hit a few weeks ago we were all outside....we would be that family that would be swept away and everyone shakes their heads and say "stupid people" hahahaha Nothing better than an awesome storm!!

one year I saw our entire fence get ripped out of the ground and tossed a few houses down!! that was INSANE!! and of course this year it was quite the year so far for storms

and there's only so much the weather man can predict...storms change very quickly!

[magnosis]

Yep, this one could have hardly been predicted much earlier...

Storm clouds started to form just over Renfrew.  Before that, there was not much to deal with.  Barely one hour later, the storm was well formed and was moving 100 km/h (and accelerating !) towards Ottawa...

Crazy !

[sas]

Phew finally able to get on, we lost power last night around six
and it came back on around nine this morning.
Still lots of folks out of power around here, apparently Pembroke
got hit pretty badly.
We were at the cottage having supper, when the storm hit, ended up staying
late and then come home to a dark house, but thankfully no real damage
this time other than an old fence coming down.

Zipped back up to the lake today just to check that the power
was on up there and clean any trees up.

Gotta love country life, never a dull moment.

[magnosis]

Woa that bites >.<  on the other hand, supper by candle lights at the cottage is the part of the backcountry fun isn't it


My mother-in-law lives in Hull near the Cegep and they still have no power, since yesterday ...  Thanks, Gatineau. Always a leader in maintaining your infrastructure !! (remember the flooding few weeks ago ?  or the restaurant that burned to the ground because the hydrant hadn't been maintained for years ? ... sigh !)

[dan2x38]

I missed the exact name Environment Canada said it was a down - something or other like down force but not that? Any ways the top winds were close to 140kms hurricane speeds. It was not a tornado but a larger area is affected like a large cloud cover area instead of a localized funnel cloud is forced down suddenly. It is less dangerous since it has lower winds. So an entire huge cloud system almost touches down but doesn't it just creates a large wind and potential hail stones.

[Greatwhite]

Well, I have to admit that there were lots of posts here and I haven't read them all before piping up.  What else is new, though??

This extreme weather is not entirely related to the lack of recycling, or a buildup of greenhouse gasses causing ManBearPig to go on a rampage (aka - global warming).  Government has no control over the weather.  They jack up the price of things that are bad for us with useless taxes under the guise of trying to stop us from using them.  Then they find that people don't stop using the "bad stuff" and they're making money off it... Cigarettes, alcohol, gas all fall in this category.

Honestly, with gas at $1.30/L, who is driving less?

If you want to know why climate is getting so extreme, look up the Universal Equator, and Dec 21, 2112.  ya ya ya - ARMAGEDDON!!!  not really though.  Science has shown that the planets orbit the sun and pivot up and down, through the universal equator.  The Earth passes through the universal equator every 12,900 years (give or take), and the next time we pass through it will be end of December, 2112.  This is what the Mayan calendar plots.

No, going through the equator will not be the end of the world (hopefully!), but as we approach the equator, it is predicted that we will have increasingly extreme weather fluctuations and natural disasters.  We've seen it starting already with large earthquakes, tsunamis, and crazy weather.

The weather is nuts EVERYWHERE right now.  Just watch the weather channel.

Weather has been calm for a very long time, yet there's evidence of climate and violent shifts in the earth. Mountains didn't just appear overnight... 

Only time will tell what is coming and this is just my thought on it.   Plan a big Christmas / end of the world party for next year!!

[NanoSF]

It is sad that not one person is in agreement that governments are responsible for climate change in a big way. I would be fine if some people disagreed but not one person replied in agreement with my statement and that makes me sad

This is a simple principle supported by the top climate minds in the world. The first two paragraphs of David Suzuki's webpage on climate change states these simple principles.

"Global warming is a serious problem, and we're working to decrease carbon emissions in Canada.

On the national level, we are developing a clean, renewable energy plan for Canada through the Trottier Energy Futures Project. For individuals, we offer resources on how to go carbon neutral at home and at work.
Get the government to end tax breaks to dirty fuels!

The federal government continues to give billions of dollars in tax breaks to the companies producing oil and gas in Canada. Analysis shows a total of $1.4 billion per year in federal subsidies, $840 million of which are special tax breaks, with a disproportionate share going to dirty fuels such as the Alberta Tar Sands"

http://www.davidsuzuki.org/issues/climate-change/ (to find the exact quotation)
So what exactly are we arguing here?  Listen to Al Gore speak on the same topics. It's all the same message.

Facts

Climate change is mainly due to carbon emissions.

Government could push for renewable energy in a much bigger way, and stop subsidising the oil companies, but it is big business so they don't.

That makes government largely responsible for our climate change. In fact in Canada we have pushed back the commitment to reducing carbon emission all the way to the year 2050. Not only are they not taking further steps, they are back peddling.

Our chief meteorologist in Canada states that climate change is the reason for the storms higher occurrence. There was an article on Yahoo Canada today stating this very fact. He said the temperatures are not dropping enough at night and that is the reason we have so many storms now.

So these are the top minds in the world concerning climate change. I am inclined to believe them.

[Greatwhite]

I'm sure that there are people who are of the same frame of mind as you in regards to emissions causing blah blah blah global warming.

I've debated this with a few people who have had very strong opinions and excellent copy/paste skills from David Suzuki's site.

However...   My belief is simply that "Global warming" is just the government's latest distraction to redirect our focus from more important things like misuse of tax money, increasing national debt and military in places they shouldn't be.  I remember not too long ago when Acid Rain was a BIG DEAL.  You couldn't go anywhere without being afraid of a rain drop hitting you.  I haven't heard anything about acid rain in years because someone invented the concept of global warming as an explanation for climate change.

The truth is, we generate very little greenhouse gas.  In fact, the largest contributor to greenhouse gas - is cow poop.

The Earth has been through at least 5 major ice ages, and there is evidence that the earth has even been completely ice free even at high altitude.  So what was the cause of the ice to start melting 15,000 years ago?  It certainly wasn't people driving SUVs..

I just grabbed this from wikipedia after a chuckle:

There is a theory that about 15000 BC prehistoric man, by killing the mammoths, removed a major grazing factor and so let the North American and Eurasian tundra get overgrown with trees, which, sticking up above the winter snow, made the land darker and made the spring warming much quicker, and so ended the last Ice Age.

Perhaps humans WERE responsible for the end of the ice age?  Why did Al Gore's great great great .... great great grandfather not warn them?

[magnosis]

@NanoSF will all due respect, we don't agree with your statement because.... I believe you misinterpreted Suzuki's statement.

He never said that "governments are responsible for climate change" sorry to break it that way, but this is just wrong !!

We can claim that the government doesn't encourage us to lower our carbon emissions.  That the government could pass laws that prohibit big emitters, etc etc.  I mean, Canadians at large will never agree on this, depends on your political views etc etc should the government be more or less involved, this has been subject to arguments & political debates for the last few hundred years ;-)  Dictatorship vs Democracy to its purest form.  This is beyond the discussion on climate & storms & such.

But from this, to saying that the government is responsible for global climate changes ?  I'm very sorry, you'll have a hard time getting agreement on this one.  This is your opinion, not a fact.  As Dan's quotation of Voltaire says :-) your are rightful in defending it.... let's just be careful when drawing the line between opinions & facts :-P

Or maybe I misinterpreted your statement... my bad, then.

Again, in all due respect :-)  


You (and the scientific community) are right that storms are more intense & numerous because of climate changes.  What I was saying is that I am not 100% convinced that a) Humans can prevent this by reversing the climate change (impossible) and b) global warming is actually sped up by human activity (it is part of a natural cycle of warming & freezing... are we accelerating it ? maybe. There is no agreement in the scientific community on this, yet).

[JetJumper]

I strongly dislike david suzuki.  Thats my Opinion and I am sticking to it!

[Greatwhite]

I strongly dislike david suzuki.  Thats my Opinion and I am sticking to it!

^^ that. 

David Suzuki convinced me it was a good idea to dispose of my beer fridge!  Now look - not enough room for beer in my main fridge!  I hold grudges, too.

[bt]

are we accelerating it ? maybe.  There is no agreement in the scientific community on this, yet

Don't confuse junk science for real science.  Both sides of the argument have their junk science, but among credible scientists there absolutely is an agreement on if human activity is having a negative impact.  There is also an agreement among them that there is a natural cycle.  What there is no agreement on yet is just where "natural cycle" ends and "human activity" begins.  Even the credible critics of most climate change research agree that human activity is a factor - they just argue that it's a smaller factor than the natural cycle.

Any study in the past 10 years that takes an all or nothing result is purely to push one agenda or another.

[magnosis]

What there is no agreement on yet is just where "natural cycle" ends and "human activity" begins.  Even the credible critics of most climate change research agree that human activity is a factor - they just argue that it's a smaller factor than the natural cycle.

... is what I meant, though I didn't express it correctly (much sleep depraved today...) I over-vulgarized the science for sake of keeping it simple.  Difficult to discuss of a very complex system in very simple terms ;-)

David Suzuki convinced me it was a good idea to dispose of my beer fridge!  Now look - not enough room for beer in my main fridge!  I hold grudges, too.

I laughed out loud :-D

Also, there

[NanoSF]

Wow Greatwhite maybe you should look your facts up first. You claim they are just distractions but it is very accepted as scientific fact that there is global warming that is at least in some part caused by post industrial revolution. Sure changes happen in the world but NEVER ever at this rate. If you think it is just a distraction for other things then why is the current government ignoring the environment. Sure if they took our tax money claiming they needed it to help the environment your argument would hold water, but they are actually moving away from any environmental improvements. Your argument just doesn't make sense and to disregard this with blah blah blah is very simplistic and uninformed. If you don't believe it fine, but your argument makes no sense.

Part of the reason you don't hear about acid rain is that the EPA has taken steps to do something about it and it has improved. These are the kind of steps the government needs to take further IMO.

"EPA has taken steps to limit the amount of NOx and SO2 emitted into the atmosphere because they are the main contributors to acid deposition (for more information, see EPA's Acid Rain Program)."

http://www.epa.gov/acidrain/reducing/index.html

Next your cow poop statement is wrong again. Greenhouse gasses - 9-26% are from carbon dioxide, and 4-9 % are from methane.

Also, you don't need to be ignorant about calling me a copy and paste information person. I read lots of sources and I copied and pasted a basic statement on that website for sharing purposes.

Magnsis I agree I haven't said everything perfectly. I am rushing out of frustration a bit. I don't think that the government being responsible for climate change was under my facts section though. That is my opinion and I did start this by saying I wouldn't have minded if some were against and some were for, but there has be no support and all and I find that disappointing for the future of the environment. The arguments against were also sometimes illogical and misguided. Your argument however are very logical and very sound. I agree that some people think this way about the role of government, I just don't. I think the environment is one of the things the government should be responsible for. Subsidizing big oil companies instead of promoting clean energy is in my opinion something the governments are failing at. So what I am saying is they are responsible for not making the improvements they could be making to climate change. Not that they are responsible for climate change in the first place. I mean even if you disagree with what climate change comes from, lowering pollution would be nice from an air breathing perspective too. Renewable resources just makes sense in every possible way.

I could buy the pushing of agendas on both sides argument, but money is the catalyst for almost everything. The last I looked the people making and burning the fossil fuels are still ruling the monetary world, while the solar panel makes and David Susuki's of the world don't hold a candle to them. It seems more like an argument between the rich that want to stay rich, and the science that wants to protect the world. I mean we are all in the hobby of fresh and salt water. Nothing could be more apparent in this world that the rapidly depleting coral reefs of the world due to climate change (specifically the warming that is causing all this devastation).

[magnosis]

I think we can all find common ground.

For now, let's remind ourselves (self included) this is a storm thread 

[dan2x38]

We can go round and round on all this and quote this person or that but really what affects things more than anything is the IT Age! We hear about something before it finishes happening today. Look at the last time Yellowstone erupted, how about Pompeii, what about Atlantis...? There were some serious weather disturbances in history and the evidence is there to show it. No one back then heard of an under water earth quake causing the splitting of a continent because there was no media to report it and no net to babble about it... LOL in fact many of these events were never recorded. Things happened and it was to just their communities for all they ever knew... the Gods were angry if you will.

I am trying to say is these things have happened in the past and in some major ways but it is only because of information travel that is it made so big. These warming trends have happened in the past and once before even more severe with a climate change +7f over all globally. We see every gory detail on TV, on YouTube and in the paper. We are over come with exposure look at the days and hours of coverage for 9/11! Yes that was tragic but after awhile I was numb to it from the endless transmissions from the disaster.

What caused the great divide of Pangaea? Where did the Rockies come from? How about Hawaii... and on and on... There was serious weather change back then. The cavemen didn't sit around and blame farting animals they were just glad it got warmer... LOL

My point is there are so many theories out there I do not know which one to believe? But I do know that I have affected the environment in my own way and we all have. If we keep it up we are in for rude awaking and soon. So we walk a little more, waste a little less and oh by the way get rid of our aquariums... to do our part. If we all saved one liter of gas a day for week in Canada we would be doing ourselves a great serve - imagine for a year and so on. It is not the government that has and impact on that but YOU and ME.

Next... 

[Greatwhite]

Sure changes happen in the world but NEVER ever at this rate.

AAAND that's where you lost some credibility.  Never say "never" and especially don't capitalize it.  

How do we, or anyone know how the world was changing before the last ice age?  All that scientists know is that before the ice age, greenhouse gas was high.  At the end, it was low.  And now it's building up, which COULD very well be an indication that we are heading into another ice age.  Who knows?  I wasn't around 13,000 or so years ago as a witness.

As for the cow poop - I was wrong in my information, you're correct.  It's actually cow farts.  I was reading about how composting cow manure reduces the methane gas emissions from the natural decomposition of it, and how there are people starting to actually harvest the methane from the poop.  However, natural emissions from the MILLIONS of beef cows that we raise for our dinners plays a part in the greenhouse gas buildup.

For the record, I didn't say YOU were a cut & paster - I said the other guys I've debated with were, thereby making me debate with old thoughts from David Suzuki.

See, I watched Al Gore's movie and was like "wow, he's right - we're screwed!".  He showed numbers and graphs that do support the fact that it's warmer today than it was 100 years ago on average.  

I know that when I was a kid, weather was different.  It was predictable, it was pretty much as expected.  The last few years have been just plain ODD.  Last summer was cold and rainy.  This summer so far has been hot, followed by a violent wind storm.  I haven't seen so many trees blown down in my life that I've seen in the last 2 months.

Three years ago, I had 13 foot snow banks.  The following year, almost no snow at all.

I don't believe that gradual buildup of greenhouse gas could cause such a dramatic change one year over the last.

Fact: the earth goes through climate cycles.  El Nino/La Nina runs on an average of a 5 year cycle, causing hot dry and cool wet periods.

Fact too:  The sun also goes through ~11 year cycles of activity and is currently heading toward its peak of activity.  This causes increased solar radiation, which the Ozone layer protects us from (somewhat), but still has a HUGE affect on our climate.

We have NO control over the earth's natural climate cycle, and we have even less control over the sun's.  Both of these things have direct impact on our global average temperature, warming the oceans, melting the ice caps, causing more frequent and violent hurricanes.  

Did you know that there's a "think tank" set up, trying to cool down the ocean with giant turbines that are intended to draw the cool water from the deep ocean and churn it into upper levels to reduce average temperature of the planet?  Brilliant... lol

The truth is, there are facts and scientific evidence to argue both sides of what is causing the climate change.  The author of whatever reading material or movies/videos you read & watch takes liberties on the numbers to skew results in their favor.  There is no such thing as an impartial view of climate change that I'm aware of.  No one in their right mind would make a movie with no alterior motives.  

There are MANY things in media (and I consider the Internet as a HUGE source of distraction media) that are there only as a distraction from more important things.  I like to read about these things because SOMEWHERE in all the fiction, there may be a fact or two.  One theory that I find interesting but would never argue as truth is about Planet X approaching Earth's orbit, causing gravitational changes which is impacting our climate.  Even more interesting are the sculptures from ancient Sumeria that show a second "sun", called Nibiru... aka Planet X.

I merely stated that you never hear about acid rain, because it was replaced in media by the holes in the ozone layer, and now global warming.  But am I about to run around with my mouth open in a rain storm?  Not a chance.

Please don't get frustrated as a result of my opinions and choice of facts that I follow.  Honestly, I just like to debate, and if you had said at the start "Fact: it's getting hot outside because of cows farting", I'd have argued that my neighbor with 2 SUVs is solely responsible for it.  You should see the discussions I get into around election time when my tree hugging friend starts Harper bashing!!! hehe now THOSE are fun!

[Greatwhite]

I think we can all find common ground.

For now, let's remind ourselves (self included) this is a storm thread 

That's an amazing picture.  A friend of mine in Peterborough was posting similar pics of a storm front rolling in last night around 8pm...  I figured that if it was hitting him at 8, it'd be here by midnight -- and nothing.  

Storms fascinate me.  I turn off the TV and sit at the front window watching lightning and the torrential downpours that accompany...  I once flew into Miami as a hurricane was approaching.  You get a real amazing view of the storm from 30,000 feet!!!!