Local Biotope

[Yams]

Hey all,

Anyone here have a Local Biotope aquarium? I am considering setting one up, with all locally caught plants , fish etc etc.

I have read around and I know there are limitations on which fish can be caught / transported etc etc, and I have a fishing license so that's not really a problem. Will look into it more once I get closer to the fish stage.

Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions on setting up a river or lake biotope, plants to get and where to get them? (like Ponds, streams...)

Just curious, think its a interesting end of summer project for me to keep me busy that doesn't cost a 1,000,000$, as I am holding out saving for a new 150Gal aquarium.

The tank is a 20Gal that I am using....... want lots of plants

Any tips / Advice / experience would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[Greatwhite]

20G will definitely restrict the kind of fish you can keep...  I'd suggest picking up a minnow trap and toss that in a weedy spot in a lake/river/whatever and hope for the best.  You might be able to catch some nice silver minnows (I don't know the exact name, but they're actually real nice looking)

Plants should be easy enough to come across.

Neat idea, though!

[Jay]

A school of Musky would be nice.

[Stussi613]

I have read around and I know there are limitations on which fish can be caught / transported etc etc, and I have a fishing license so that's not really a problem.

Even with a license the majority of the interesting species can't be transported, so be careful here. If you're going to go with minnows you might want to just buy them from a bait shop in, or near, town  as they will be more acclimatized to city water.

[Fishnut]

You need to consider the fish's diet after you put them in their tank.  They'll be used to certain ways of getting food and types of things that they recognize as food.  Can you mimic that until they start accepting commercially prepared diets?

[Yams]

I have a few sources of live food to feed wild fish, I know it takes some time to change over diets, so that has been taken into consideration.

As for the types of fish,  the hardest part so far would be finding them, let alone the illegal ones to transport, lol! I do also live on the Quebec side so laws could be a bit different than in Ontario. Anyone who knows of what is / isn't illegal would be appreciated! Still gotta find a source though that I can poke around in looking for fish! But that's going to be the fun part I think.

All speculation and an idea right now.

[Stussi613]

This would be a good place to start.

http://www.mrnf.gouv.qc.ca/english/publications/online/wildlife/fishing-regulations/regles-generales/index.asp

Unlike Ontario, Quebec does not seem to have cut and dry regulations on transporting fish when alive, which may work in your favour...but I would call first to be sure. If you get stopped you can't plead ignorance of the law.

Jay and I talked about this before, imagine a 120g natural biotope with some of the prettier sunfish species in it?  It would be like living in the amazon basin and having access to as many free discus as you want!!

[Yams]

I agree with that Stussi613, its interesting to collect and maintain.

Thats  fantastic sunfish, if all works out initially I may upgrade... so far so intersting. The link you provided is fantastic! Thanks!

[martin_jones]

I vaguely remember this being discussed previously, with the outcome that it is illegal to keep local fish in captivity.

A brief search online yielded the following from : http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NC68R3-HGFcJ:forum.nanfa.org/index.php/topic/4662-legality-of-keeping-native-fish-in-ontario/+keeping+ontario+native+fish+captivity&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.ca
(cached link since the original one doesn't work as I have an adblocker)

Martin
-----------------------------
Hello Craig Williams:

Thank you for your enquiry.

Native fish can only be kept under a scientific collector's
Authorization permit when needed for education purposes. Information
about the application process to obtain a permit is available from your
local MNR office.

The Guelph district office phone number is 519-826-4955 while the phone
number for the Aurora District office is 905-713-7400. You may also
reach either office by calling the toll free number below and requesting
a transfer.

nric web reader - lr
*******************************************
Natural Resources Information Centre
PO Box 7000
Peterborough, ON K9J 8M5
1-800-667-1940
Fax: 705-755-1677

http://themnrstore.mnr.gov.on.ca
********************************************

[magnosis]

bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah  I was loving this project ! would have been great to see it come to life :/

[Yams]

Everything here I am reading goes for Ontario. Anyone have any information for the Quebec Side? Seems sometimes laws don't quite have the same legalities in Quebec as they do in Ontario, such as automobile safetying for example! (which I am not sure I fully agree with, but thats besides the point)

I will give the Minstere des ressources naturelles et de la Faune in Quebec a call tomorrow and see what they say... And the more I think and research this the more I want to do this!

[Greatwhite]

So I'm sitting here, working away - and the City of Ottawa water meter replacer guys show up.  One guy saw my aquarium, and started to tell me about how much he liked my oscar (ya, I have a salt tank).. He was looking at my Coral Beauty.

Anyways - he mentioned that he once set up a "wild tank" with stuff caught in a pond near where he lived.  Apparently, he did it as part of his university education in Fisheries & Aquaculture.  He then explained that he didn't have much tropical fish experience, which is why he mistook the Coral Beauty...

He confirmed with me that it's illegal to keep "wild fish" in an  aquarium except for research purposes.  It sounds like it's not just a provincial thing...

There may be loopholes that you can get through, though - since there are lots of "nice looking" fish that are not of interest to the Natural Resources people.  I suspect that you'd get the best answers by sending an anonymous email or phoning your local Ministry of Natural Resources office.  Make a list of types of fish that you'd be interested in keeping before you contact them, though...

[magnosis]

Lemme ask my dad he was the regional director at the MRN in gatineau....

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

[Yams]

I just called them today, they at first stated "No way can you keep fish in an aquarium" than I started to explain I wanted to keep sunfish and minnows (not Salmon, and other such species), and the tone changed quickly too, "Let me transfer you"

Ended up leaving a message with a Director in Gatineau for the MRN. The operator said they were all on Summer Vacation... so might take a bit to get back, also sent a email... see which one gets back to me first.

If you hear anything else Magnosis that'd be interesting information to know.

[magnosis]

Talked to my dad today (former Director).

The law in Quebec is as in Ontario; you can only keep indigenous fish species in captivity with an appropriate license and must be either for educational or research purposes.

Also, the MRN staff has tried multiple times in the past to keep trout, pike, minnows and other common fish in aquariums, it was very difficult to get them to eat and most didn't survive past a few weeks.  Beside feeding, the next biggest challenge was to keep them from hitting the glass all the time; they got bruised and injured really fast.

Bottom line: fish caught in lakes and rivers are very difficult to get used to a small tank.  If you had a big (200G+) tank and setup the perfect isotope, they may not hit the glass that often and eventually get used to it, but feeding them will remain quite an undertaking.  Wild fish are accustomed not only to specific types of live food, but also very much in the way they capture it.  If you simply throw live bait in the tank and it doesn't giggle the way it naturally does, your fish might very well ignore it.

Anyways; it's not impossible, it's just difficult. It's a challenge for experts no less (maybe you are !).  And as said, it must be demonstrated that it's for educational or scientific research purposes before the MRN will grant you the proper license.

Hope this sheds some light on the matter.  Sorry to confirm the bad news :-/

[Yams]

@ Magnosis - Not sure what the problem is keeping Native species in an aquarium. In my readings most of our Native Species are actual very hardy, easy to feed fish. Compared to lets say, taking Wild Discus and trying to get them settled vice some Minnows or Sunfish, our Canadian Natives are apparently very hardy little guys. Keeping a pike or trout in an aquarium is not really fair to the fish, sort of like keeping a Iridescent Shark in a 10Gal aquarium, or Common Pleco in a 5Gal. Those a big, fast strong river swimmers, demanding alot of current and alot of space, not really the same as a minnow or sunfish. As for hitting their head on the glass, that goes to show one or two things. a) The aquarium is not suited for them, they are not comfortable just like any fish, when startled will attempt to dart away often hitting the glass (lacking hiding spots) or b) there is simply too much traffic in the area these fish are being kept, need quieter areas to acclimatize as with most wild fish
(Those are my thoughts of that, and the aquarium hobby in regards to even filtration has continued to develop in leaps and bounds, making it easier and easier to keep fish)

Thats a crying shame in my opinion.

The law seems to be not catering to the hobbyist, but rather to the Fish and Game industries. Seems there needs to be some updating on this, as our American Cousins can keep and house their Native Species (each state being different), why are we so different that we cannot? If we do it properly, with care and knowledge, us as hobbyist can help bring to light the fantastic species of fish Canada has to offer.

The fact that we cannot fully enjoy our local aquatic wildlife, is not really fair.

I was reading through the "Regulation respecting animals in captivity - Act on conservation and development of wildlife" and kind of laughed that we cannot keep minnows, catfish, sunfish or non-game species fish, but people can...

Quote
"DIVISION  VIII
KEEPING OF WHITE-TAILED DEER

45 .   A license to keep white-tailed deer authorizes the keeping in captivity of more than 5 white-tailed deer for personal purposes."
http://www2.publicationsduquebec.gouv.qc.ca/dynamicSearch/telecharge.php?type=2&file=/C_61_1/C61_1R5.htm

So, you can keep 5 White-Tailed Deer according to Provincial law, but cannot keep minnows legally. 
Since I have been greatly bored at work lately, I think I will bug my MP in my area about this, write some letters, make some phone calls.

Until than, I will wait and see what the new MRN Directors say, with not very good hopes unfortunately

[Greatwhite]

When I was in Cape Cod last summer, we went to a local "zoo".  It had 6 or 8 tanks set up with local fish... But they were easily 1000G tanks.

Personally, I don't see a problem with a minnow tank.  Buy some minnows from a live bait shop to "save them"...

I wouldn't put anything bigger in a small tank like that.