Cycling - Ammonia

[bizfromqc]

I started cycling my new 20 gallon high tank about 7 days ago and was wondering when I should start seeing some ammonia in the tank? Here's what I did to date followed by a couple of questions I have...

Day 1 - NutraFin AquaPlus + 50ml NutraFin Cycle
Day 2 - 20ml NutraFin Cycle
Day 3 - 20ml NutraFin Cycle + 2 zebra danios (NH3 == 0ppm)
Day 4 - 20ml NutraFin Cycle (NH3 == 0ppm)
Day 5 - 3 new zebra danios (for a total of 5 to get the waste going) + 4 plants (Crypt, Windelov Fern and Black Sword)
Day 6 - NH3 == 0ppm
Day 7 - NH3 == 0ppm

1) I am using an AquaClear 30/150 with 3 inserts; The white foam, the activated carbon and another labeled "Ammonia Remover". Should I be using this "Ammonia Removed" when one of the goals of cycling a tank is to produce ammonia to get the nitrite/nitrate cycle going?

2) I now have 5 zebra danios in there, is this too little/much to cycle my 20G?

3) I feed them once and/or twice a day, they eat most everything I put in there (flakes for now) and seem lively and happy.

4) I've got a Hydor 100W heater set to 25C but my tank seems to be stuck at 27C and I'm assuming it's because of my two CFL pendant lights (2 x 23W) sitting straight on the plexi hood that's heating things up. Is there a preferred temperature for cycling a tank?

Now I know cycling is a process that takes time and I don't want to appear impatient because I'm not. I just want to ensure I'm doing things correctly and if not, adjust right away.

So that's it, am I going at this the right way or am I heading straight to failure?

Many thanks for any and all suggestions/info.

[bizfromqc]

Day 8 == 0ppm
Day 9 == 0ppm

...

[Fishnut]

OMG...Nutrafin Cycle is nothing more than a money grab.  It doesn't work and the people who work at the shops that promote it are educated by the sales reps and stores that push it, so that's why they sell it to customers.

Yes, please take the ammonia remover out.  You're right.  If you want to see ammonia in the tank, which it needs to have in order to cylce properly, removing the ammonia is the last thing you need to do.  Ammonia remover pouches are great for people who REALLY screw things up and have such a high level of ammonia that they need something to remove it quickly.  It is not good for anything beyond a quick fix, then it has to be removed.  I really hope a fish store person didn't recommend that you buy one!

The zebra danios are great fish to start with...tough and fun to watch!  They're pretty easy on the tank because they don't produce a lot of waste.  They do not need a heater though.  In fact, they live longer and healthier lives if kept at room temperature!  Now, that's not to say they will perish at warmer temps but 27 is getting up there as an extreme temp for them.  Ideally you really want to max out at 25.  Most other "tropical Fish" can be easily kept at that temperature.  Try lowering the temp on the heater so the lights won't make it warmer.

You're off to a great start!  Trust me, I used to work in a fish room and I have seen SO MANY people do many more stupid things that kill fish quickly!  Just be careful on the over-feeding once the ammonia bag has been removed.  Those little danios don't need a lot of food.

[bizfromqc]

OMG...Nutrafin Cycle is nothing more than a money grab.  It doesn't work and the people who work at the shops that promote it are educated by the sales reps and stores that push it, so that's why they sell it to customers.

Yes, please take the ammonia remover out.  You're right.  If you want to see ammonia in the tank, which it needs to have in order to cylce properly, removing the ammonia is the last thing you need to do.  Ammonia remover pouches are great for people who REALLY screw things up and have such a high level of ammonia that they need something to remove it quickly.  It is not good for anything beyond a quick fix, then it has to be removed.  I really hope a fish store person didn't recommend that you buy one!

The zebra danios are great fish to start with...tough and fun to watch!  They're pretty easy on the tank because they don't produce a lot of waste.  They do not need a heater though.  In fact, they live longer and healthier lives if kept at room temperature!  Now, that's not to say they will perish at warmer temps but 27 is getting up there as an extreme temp for them.  Ideally you really want to max out at 25.  Most other "tropical Fish" can be easily kept at that temperature.  Try lowering the temp on the heater so the lights won't make it warmer.

You're off to a great start!  Trust me, I used to work in a fish room and I have seen SO MANY people do many more stupid things that kill fish quickly!  Just be careful on the over-feeding once the ammonia bag has been removed.  Those little danios don't need a lot of food.

Rest assured, no one at the LFS recommended the Amonnia remover but I figured it wouldn't hurt (even though in the back of my mind putting this in was kind of counter productive). What prompted me to put it in (a bunch of stuff was given to me by someone out of the hobby) was that it mentionned "great for new tanks" on the directions on the box. My bad for not having it researched before but I will take it out tonight when I get home.

The zebra danios are a great little bunch, it's like watching kids in a playground running everywhere and fooling around but boy they NEVER rest. I'll have to tweak the heater and turn it down a bit. I'd like to keep things in there at around 25. I read that the markings on the heater's thermostat are not that reliable and that I should tweak the knob based on my temperature readings and not the markings on the heater so I'll do that.

I'm hoping to see some NH3 reading in there a little while after I remove the "ammonia remover"!

[exv152]

If you can afford to get more plants that would help soak up some of the ammonia. Anytime I've started a new tank I've always added tons of plants, which I found through experience reduces the cycle time significantly.

[sas]

Not sure where you are situated, but if you're close to another
hobbyist they may be willing to share some grungy
filter media. That will really kick start your tank.

[bizfromqc]

Not sure where you are situated, but if you're close to another
hobbyist they may be willing to share some grungy
filter media. That will really kick start your tank.

I'm in Gatineau and work downtown.

I use an AquaClear 30/150 on the tank, would that matter at all or would it be a matter of somehow "put" the media or "water" another tank in mine?

[cdylnicki]

My experience has been very positive using cycle.

I have worked in pet retail for over 7 years and have never spoken with a rep or have been pushed to sell it.  At first i thought it was a scam product too, but the staff tested its reliabiility ourselves and have found it to make a difference in fish loss and cycling times in new systems.

[bizfromqc]

Alright, "ammonia remover" removed last night. Will do an ammonia reading tonight and go from there.

[sas]

I'm in Gatineau and work downtown.

I use an AquaClear 30/150 on the tank, would that matter at all or would it be a matter of somehow "put" the media or "water" another tank in mine?

Ah sorry I'm not closer , or I'd be able to help you out
with some dirty filter.
Maybe post in the classifieds as LF.
Good move getting rid of the ammonia remover,
keep an eye on your water parameters since you have
life fish in the tank.
Hopefully someone will jump in here and get you some
dirty filter material.

[charlie]

Darn , i just threw some out this morning.
I can pull some floss from another of my canisters if you are willing to make the trek to Bank & Hunt Club area,LMK.
Regards

[bizfromqc]

Thanks for the offer guys. I don't mind waiting it out though, gives me time to plan/tweak everything else I want to get going (scape, plants, diy co2, etc...)

Will update the thread here with my params as they change.

One thing came to mind though... I just removed the "Ammonia remover" from my filter stack (which leaves the foam and carbon), that leaves me with one empty spot, should I put some BioMax in there (or something else) or leave it empty?

Thanks

[sas]

You could put in another sponge or even some
filter floss.
Or even make a bag up of some ceramic rings, that
will make more surface area for good bacteria to live.

[Fishnut]

I used to use nylon stockings to stack different media in those filters.  You can really put any filter media you like in them

BioMax would be a great addition.  I also used to put a piece of filter floss under the sponge because it would catch all the debris and I could just toss it.  You need to pull the basket apart more often to replace it if you do that though.

[bizfromqc]

Alright, day 14. Removed the "ammonia remover" a couple of days ago and still 0ppm ammonia this morning. I also added a pack of biomax to my AC30 filter last night since I had an empty slot in the media bin.

The wait continues...

[charlie]

Alright, day 14. Removed the "ammonia remover" a couple of days ago and still 0ppm ammonia this morning. I also added a pack of biomax to my AC30 filter last night since I had an empty slot in the media bin.

The wait continues...

I just read your thread from post 1
A few questions how old is your test kit?
Have you tested for Nitrite & Nitrate?
I`m under the impression your issue is no ammonia spikes since you started the tank to present.
Regards

[bizfromqc]

Yep, you hit the nail on the head.

I've started the tank 2 weeks ago and pretty much started taking ammonia readings from day 5 when I introduced the danios.

Since then, I might have missed a day or two but I pretty much tested for ammonia every day and I got 0ppm.

I'm using the API Ammonia Test Kit (bought from Wal-Mart).
http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=69

I hate to say I didn't check the expiry date on the test kit, i will do so when I get home tonight. Thanks for the tip..

I didn't test for Nitrite/Nitrate yet since I assumed (maybe I shouldn't have...) that I didn't even get ammonia yet. I had read a couple places that ammonia could take 2+ weeks to show up. I did also have that ammonia remover media in my AC30 at one point (removed now) .

Are you thinking I might have already had the spike?

[charlie]

I like to eliminate the obvious things first before recommending any remedies  , lest make sure the test kit is good, you can a fish store or fellow hobbyist check your water & see what they come up with.
By checking your Nitrites & Nitrates you will be able to confirm how far along the cycle is.
Regards

[Tetra]

Unless you've added some mature filter media you couldn't have missed the ammonia spike. During cycling a tank you should be seeing ammonia spikes for a long time, until the nitrite producing bacteria are established in your filter.

[bizfromqc]

So I went to La Niche tonight to get some more plants and thought it would be a good thing to bring a water sample from my tank to get it tested it there.

Turns out the cycle has not only started but is almost complete. I didn't ask for the exact ppm parameters but what we saw was 0 ammonia, a minute trace of nitrite and a bit of nitrate. So it looks like I never did get that ammonia spike but it might have been a bit more progressive.

I don't know if its because I only added fish after 5 days and added fish slowly 2 danios then another couple of days and then 3 more, followed by a couple of plants.

In any case, it looks like it's almost done. I'd say I'll give it about another week, do a water change (the first one, I'm thinking about 1/4 or 1/3) and then get the water retested again. If I get 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite, I think I can start putting other fish in there.

My PH also tested around 6.6 which should be more than OK for a couple of apistos.

Time to toss that ammonia test kit I have, it's garbage.