20G - Apistogramma cacatuoides

[touchofsky]

Good idea to move the danios.

Are the eggs still there today?

[bizfromqc]

Yes they're still in there so mommy is doing a fine job at keeping them away

Most of the time they won't even venture near the Anubias but will migrate to the bottom of the tank after feeding and that's when they go around her and she gets p**** off at them.

I need to get my 10gal tank setup ASAP in case I need to move some fish in a hurry.

I need more tanks LOL

[touchofsky]

My kribs killed some of my long finned danios when they started breeding.  I had to move the danios out quickly|!

[fischkopp]

Congrats on the breeding!

It's actually not that uncommon that apistos will breed shortly after they were introduced to a new tank. The female was probably ready to breed long before, but at the fish store with the high stocking density it wasn't able to establish a territory or even find a spawning site. Males tend to be opportunist especially with no other males around.

Keep the temperature around 25/26 degrees, this will give you the most even split between males and females for the fry. They will take about 4-5 day to hatch, and are free swimming a couple of days later. In the beginning you will see their litle yolk sack; it will last for the first 2-3 days, then you will have to start feeding. Freshly hatched BBS works best in the first weeks.

I never had danios as i find them to erratic, so I would take them out too. But it is a good idea to have some tetras as dither fish. With no other fish around to chase away apisto pair can turn on themselves and this usually ends badly for one of them. Females do a great job protecting their fry, and they got no problem doing it against little tetras, but they male can get very annoyed and is in the end the stronger of the two. Also males sometimes help to chase off danger too.

And don't worry if that all goes to fast for you. If this brood doesn't turn out, and you stay on top of water changes and all that they will sure breed again in three weeks ...

Good luck!

[bizfromqc]

Congrats on the breeding!

It's actually not that uncommon that apistos will breed shortly after they were introduced to a new tank. The female was probably ready to breed long before, but at the fish store with the high stocking density it wasn't able to establish a territory or even find a spawning site. Males tend to be opportunist especially with no other males around.

Keep the temperature around 25/26 degrees, this will give you the most even split between males and females for the fry. They will take about 4-5 day to hatch, and are free swimming a couple of days later. In the beginning you will see their litle yolk sack; it will last for the first 2-3 days, then you will have to start feeding. Freshly hatched BBS works best in the first weeks.

I never had danios as i find them to erratic, so I would take them out too. But it is a good idea to have some tetras as dither fish. With no other fish around to chase away apisto pair can turn on themselves and this usually ends badly for one of them. Females do a great job protecting their fry, and they got no problem doing it against little tetras, but they male can get very annoyed and is in the end the stronger of the two. Also males sometimes help to chase off danger too.

And don't worry if that all goes to fast for you. If this brood doesn't turn out, and you stay on top of water changes and all that they will sure breed again in three weeks ...

Good luck!

Thank you for quite the detailed answer 

I went to BA during my lunch hour to pick up a sponge to act as a pre-filter for my HOB AC30. Don't want the fry to get sucked in. I also picked up some Omega One Frozen Baby Brine Shrimp for when the fry needs to eat. I don't have the setup/time (at least for this batch) to get the live newly hatched BBS going so it'll have to be the frozen kind.

My tank moves between 25 and 27 because of the heat my lights (2 x 23W CFL) generate. Generally around 25-26 when the lights first turn on and about 26-27 when the lights turn off (after being on for 8 hours). That is around what you recommend, would you make any changes or keep it like this?

As I mentioned before, the danios are leaving the tank tonight. I have an empty 10G that I'll have to put them in, hopefully they can survive the move and help cycle the tank for me (it doesn't have any water now). I hate to say this but the apisto fry ranks higher on my list than the danios so while I do hope they'll be OK in the uncycled tank, it'll have to be that way for now.  I'll get some tetras or pencilfish to replace the danios as dithers and hopefully keep the couple happy 

Have you always kept the male with the female/fry or do you remove him after a little while?

Hopefully, by the time I need to remove the male (if indeed I do need to remove him) the 10G tank will be cycled so he can then move there temporarily until the female is ready to spawn again. At which point I may move the fry to the 10G or bigger tank.

So many things to learn and do, so little time LOL

One last question, what are good/typical numbers for a successful hatch?

Thanks again

[fischkopp]

Generally around 25-26 when the lights first turn on and about 26-27 when the lights turn off (after being on for 8 hours). That is around what you recommend, would you make any changes or keep it like this?

That's ok. Other water parameters will influence the male-female ratio as well, so the temp range is a good start. You can tweak it up or down. If memory serves me right warmer water will produce more males.

Have you always kept the male with the female/fry or do you remove him after a little while?

I kept them together most of the time unless I really want to raise the young. It's easier to care for the fry that way.

It pretty much depends on your tank size, the smaller the tank the more friction there is between the male and female. 24x12 inches footprint is still pretty small, there isn't much room for the female to escape the male, or to put another way: the male may not be happy if he only gets half of the tank. This very much depends on the mood/species of your apisto. Male eat the eggs and fry sometimes, or beat up the female badly, I have even seen a male beat up the female and then took over the care of the fry, or they just get along. For the agassizii group a 48inch tank can be too small; the cacatuoides group is much more calm and probably safe in you current tank.

One last question, what are good/typical numbers for a successful hatch?

That will vary depend on age and feeding. Overall they don't lay a lot of eggs since they care for the brood. 50 fry is a good number. Anything +/-25 is possible.

[bizfromqc]

Thanks again for the info.

Bad news though, I came home tonight and all the eggs were gone. Better luck next time 

[bizfromqc]

Went to the OVAS meeting last night and purchased a couple of new plants that I will be adding to the tank.

1) Java Ferns
2) Assorted mosses
3) Anubias Nanas
4) Limnophila Aromatica (thrives in high light and CO2, may have a hard time keeping it)
5) Small clay fired apisto cave

The apisto cave has already been added to the tank and both the male and female took turns in checking it out. The male barely fits in the entrance but the size is just perfect for the female to come in/out and protect. Hopefully this will give them another option for spawn location.

I also added some more rocks in front of the 2 existing clay pots to make it a bit more interesting and effective as a hiding spot for the fishes.

I will be putting in the new plants tonight and post pictures soon after. Tune in for a picture update tonight or tomorrow morning.

[charlie]

Went to the OVAS meeting last night and purchased a couple of new plants that I will be adding to the tank.

1) Java Ferns
2) Assorted mosses
3) Anubias Nanas
4) Limnophila Aromatica (thrives in high light and CO2, may have a hard time keeping it)
5) Small clay fired apisto cave

(6) ROTALA SP. 'GREEN' i thought you got this too ? 
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/details.php?id=103
Try the Aromatica under the brightest part of the tank, i don`t think the tank it came out of is injected, could be wrong.
Regards

[bizfromqc]

(6) ROTALA SP. 'GREEN' i thought you got this too ? 
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/details.php?id=103
Try the Aromatica under the brightest part of the tank, i don`t think the tank it came out of is injected, could be wrong.
Regards

Yes, I did get the Rotala Green, totally forgot about it LOL

Came from a good home too 

[bizfromqc]

My Red Tiger Lotus is rapidly melting away, it's scary. It seems like everytime I look, another hole develops on one of the leaves and I look again and part of a leaf is gone. At this rate, It'll be entirely gone in 1-2 weeks tops.

May not have enough light in my tank to keep this one happy, I'll be sad to let it go.

I finally got off my b()tt and bought some Seachem Excel Flourish as well as some root tabs and put some of both in the tank this morning.

Two capfuls of the Excel as a first dose (later realised it was waaaay too much, my math this morning was off LOL) and added 3 root tabs. One under the Red Tiger Lotus, one under the Black Sword and another one under the Crypts.

Hopefully the addition of the root tabs and the biocarbon from the Excel will bring a little life back to my tank, I really don't want to see the Red Tiger Lotus melt away like that.

Any other ideas?

Oh, and I did add 4 otocinclus to the tank as new roomies for my Apistos and Danios (yet to be replaced).

I still need to put in my new plants from the mini-auction. I cleaned them up, tied them in little bunches with fishing line and put them in temporary water jars until I can get them in the tank. Hopefully they'll still be in good shape by the time I get around to add them to the tank.

Sorry no pictures this time, crazy busy these days. More to come soon.

[bizfromqc]

Made a couple of changes to the tank:

1) Removed the Alternanthera Bettzickiana (thank you Errol)
2) Added Rotala sp. Green where the A. Bettzickiana used to be
3) Added some Anubia Nana to the mid/foreground in front of the clay pots
4) Some rocks in front of the clay pots

I'm starting to think I want to remove the piece of wood on the left. It's just a matter of time before it gets totally hidden by the plants and takes up a lot of real estate. I've also come to terms to the fact that it's not too aesthetically pleasing (as opposed to the one of the right). I think I am going to remove it from the tank, thoughts?

Things on the to do list:

1) Attach moss and java fern to piece of driftwood on the right side of the tank.
2) Remove driftwood on the left side of the tank
3) Rescape left side of the tank

Another thing I realized... Put the root tabs AFTER you're done moving stuff around and NOT a day before. The tank got sooooo cloudy when I moved the substrate where the root tabs were inserted, I wont be doing that anymore.

The otos are doing a fantastic job at cleaning up the tank. My crypts are now looking clean as a whistle and they've now moved on to the sword on the left. I have a feeling I may have to supplement their diet with some vegs as they'll be done sweeping up the entire tank in no time.

On the fish side, the female apisto is now back to her normal colors and lost the bright yellow about 48 hours after the eggs were gone. Male apisto still looks good as usual. The whole gang is getting along pretty well. I have yet to remove the danios (procrastination, yes, it's a problem).

Some pictures.

[bizfromqc]

Death in the tank.

One of the otocinclus got too close to the filter intake and got stuck. It was too late when I noticed it 

I wanted to swap out the AC30 for an AC50 I had laying around for a while now and finally decided to do it. A bit more filtration power and I also wanted to free the AC30 for a new 10G tank build. I also added a ginormous piece of foam on the intake to prevent more accidents until I can figure out a nicer looking (and still safe) alternative.

I did a direct swap from the AC30 to the AC50 but kept the Bio-Max media insert from the AC30 and put it in the AC50 (along with a new Bio-Max insert) to kick start the bacteria in the new media. I'll keep it in there for a couple of days and then put it back in the AC30, slap that in the 10G along with the 5 danios and start cycling the new 10G. At least, that's the plan...

Let's just hope the new AC50 will cycle soon enough not to affect the water quality in the apisto tank. Same with the old AC30 and the danios in the 10G. I hope to end up with two cycled tank and not two tanks that have ammonia spikes and a bunch of dead fish, that would NOT be cool.

[daworldisblack]

One of the otocinclus got too close to the filter intake and got stuck. It was too late when I noticed it 

Same thing happened to me today! It was stuck in the intake but the tail was moving so I shut the filter off and let it free. It swam straight to the glass as it to show me its damages.. poor guy.. i saw internal bleeding in its mouth. Looks good so far. Fingers crossed he makes it. Sorry to hear about your loss though

[fischkopp]

Chances are that the otocat was weakened by something else. A healthy fish should have no problems with the suction of an AC.

[Peekay]

Sorry you lost one.   

Why don't you run both filters in the 25 for a week?  Keep all inserts in both of them growing and alive, and then when you start the 10, the filter is ready to go.  If you're concerned about flow, just turn them both to 'low'. 

[bizfromqc]

I thought about that but (and this is going to sound ridiculous) I would have had to cut a hole in the plastic insert of my cover for both (I know, I know...) and didn't want a big'ol hole when I took it out. I cant really run topless either since my lights rest of the cover (and I have an adventurous cat)

I need to do something about my lights, it's starting to be a PITA to remove it all everytime I need to access the tank.

[bizfromqc]

I don't know what's going on but something's gotten into my male apisto.

He seems like he's p***** off all the time and basically won't let anyone, including the female apisto, near the bottom of the tank. He chases the danios when the get too close and will chase the female away when he sees her trying to get near the bottom of the tank. Poor thing has been kind of pinned to the top-tier of the tank.

I wonder if he's ready to mate again and the female isn't and/or he's suddenly getting territorial but he's acting like a bully. He's not harassing the female per se, it's like he doesn't want to have anything to do with her and doesn't want her near him...

I wonder what caused all this. I just hope he relaxes and doesn't stress the female to a point of no return.

Tank params are:

Temp: 27c
pH: 6.5-7.0
NH3: 0ppm
NO2: 0.3ppm
NO3: 5-10ppm

[exv152]

One thing that is noticeable is your tank isn't done its cycle process, hence the NO2 present, and low nitrate. Not sure if it's the reason for the fish's behaviour, but something to keep an eye on.

[touchofsky]

I haven't kept apistos, however, my pelvicachromis pulcher (kribensis) behave in the same way.  At times, the male won't let the female down to the bottom of the tank, and has kept her up at the top.  Is hasn't lasted very long, and after a bit, they start to get along again.  He has never done her any harm in the process.  I tend to keep some plants in the upper part of the tank to give her some cover.