Params of Tap Water.

[FISHLUVR]

Here's a picture of my poor little angelfish.  This is the best my camera would do.  

You'll notice the red areas below his top fin, around his mouth and the round sore near his mouth.  He used to have black stripes.  His mouth has lost definition.  Unfortuanately the white spots don't show in my picture.  Any help would be appreciated......I'm willing to try anything.

Thanks.........you guys are the best..........

[Julie]

It's hard to tell by the picture, I do see him losing his colour.
What temp is your tank at?
The gasping at the surface after a water change is likely an ammonia spike.  What is your filter maintenance schedual?
Melafix will alleviate stress, but I would vacuum your substrate thoroughly and add some new water- how big is your tank again?
The problem with fungus is the medication(acriflavine/malachite green) will likely effect your biofilter- it may be a bacterial infection. Is this the only tank you have running?

Julie

[FISHLUVR]

My tank is 31 gallons.  I'm vacumning the gravel twice weekly because of all the waste produced by a big algae eater (who isn't doing his job).

I cleaned out the filter cannister a week ago.......only rinsed out the sponges.........left everything else alone.......didn't want to mess with the biological filter.  Carbon was changed the 15th of October.  Temperature is 78.9 degrees.

Just had a close look at my silver angel........his mouth is ragged and constantly opening and closing, very red and raw looking.  Area around his mouth......to his eyes.......is also very red.

[Julie]

Rinse out the rest of the media from the filter in tank water, especially the bio balls.
Take some tank water in a separate container and rinse the bio balls.  Rinse the filter housing in tap water.  
How old are the carbon and ammonia inserts?   Remove the carbon for now; it will remove any medication you add to the tank.

I can see the redness on the fish, here's an article on columnaris:

http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/disease_medications/external/columnaris_diseases.shtml

Check it out and let us know if it sounds like columnaris?

Julie

[FISHLUVR]

YES AND NO......this article doesn't mention anything about spots.

This fish hid his face in bushy plants on the bottom of the tank for a couple of days before I noticed white spots at the base of his top fin.  They appeared to be "pus" filled and have since burst or drained and the entire area is red.

He has been unable to close his mouth fully for days and is constantly gulping.  His mouth seems to be coming apart.  I have seen him do a full body shake a couple of times.

His silver colour and black stripes have faded and he now is turning a tan colour (except for the white spots and redness).

I will follow your instructions for my filter canister.........have to go out and buy some water first.

[BigDaddy]

I'm posting a link to the acceptable levels of contaminants in drinking water:http://www.home-water-purifiers-and-filters.com/water-contaminants.php

Nitrite can be quite hight according to the chart.  
UV won't eliminate levels higher than 10mg/l - they recommend reverse osmosis.  The reading from the city might be .12mg/l

Julie

Yes, but what a human can safely consume and what is best for a fish to live in are completely seperate.

Nitrite exposure in fish, even in very small amounts, contributes to poor health.  Nitrite binds to red blood cells, which explains the fish gasping at the surface (low oxygen levels).  In the long term, it can cause the fish to become anemic, which can cause other secondary health issues, such as your fungal infection with the angel.

Any nitrite readings in the aquarium need to be correctly immediately.  UV has no impact on nitrite.  Rinsing filter media isn't recommended, as the last thing you want to do is further impede the biological filter by handling it.

R/O, as previously mentioned, will remove nitrite from tap water.  If R/O is not an option for you, a holding tank with a seeded filter to process the nitrite might be a viable solution.

[Julie]

BD: what is the current nitrite level in the tank in question?
My comments were not made in respect to fish and the processing of nitrites, but to her drinking water - the uv system link is for drinking water, not a fish tank uv sterilizer.

If the bio balls are all covered in crud, what state would the bio filter be in at this point?
FishL:  what are your nitrites at in the tank currently?
Does your tank turn cloudy?

Julie

[Julie]

Here's another link - it's on costia.
Another question -is your fish eating?  His tummy looks quite swollen.


http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/disease_medications/external/costia_parasite.shtml


Julie

[squeeker]

1 tsp of salt per gallon will alleviate the stress caused by ammonia poisoning.  Angelfish should be able to tolerate this level of salt; what other types of fish do you have in this tank?

[Julie]

The tank appears to be planted also.
She mentionned the algae eater isn't doing his job, so I would assume the nitrates may be high or the pleco is not well.
A hospital tank would help.
Angels are tough fish, closely related to discus.

Julie

[BigDaddy]

Unfortunately, this isn't ammonia poisoning... its nitrite poisoning.

Ammonia poisoning results in rapid breathing and other symptoms... but gasping at the surface is a sure sign of nitrite poisoning.

And I believe salt does little to nothing for nitrite poisoning, since we are now dealing with a fish who is oxygen starved and/or anemic.

.12 nitrite isn't a huge amount of nitrite.. but your test kit may be wrong.  And even if it isn't, constant exposure to nitrite will stress the fish, making it more prone to disease.

Again... if you can get a seeded sponge filter and run it it a bucket with some tap water for a few hours to remove the nitrite and THEN do a water change, you'll have some success with that part of the problem.

As far as the angel goes... sounds like cotton mouth aka columnaris.  Its a gram negative bacteria.. so maracyn II would be an effective treatment (maracyn I is for gram positive bacteria).

Again... get the nitrite out of the water and get some fresh water in that tank.  Remove carbon.  Medicate with Maracyn II at recommended dosages.

[squeeker]

Ahh, crap, I did mean nitrite, not ammonia.  I was thinking the correct thing, just wrote it wrong.  Salt is certainly effective in alleviating stress due to nitrite poisoning.  If you're worried about killing the plants with the salt or the meds, take them out of the tank and put them in a bucket.  They should be fine there for a number of days as long as they get some light.

I agree that it does look like columnaris, and Maracyn II is a good med.  

If the angel and the pleco are the only fish in the tank, might as well treat the entire tank.

You said you have a fluval filter?  Is the output end below the water level?  If it is, that could be part of the reason for the oxygen deprivation.  Move the output spout just slightly above the water level so that the water ripples and skims the surface as it enters the tank.  You don't need a lot of splashing, just some good surface movement.  That will really help.

[luvfishies]

I would add 1 tsp of salt to the tank.

1/8 teaspoon is effective in alleviating nitrite stress, so 1 teaspoon would be more than enough. It won't hurt the plants or the pleco. Even Table Salt would do in this case, as it's SUCH a small amount.

For the future, get Seachem PRIME water conditioner, as it dechlorinates, dechloraminates, renders ammonia harmless, and is purported to neutralise nitrites as well.

AmQuel + (note the +) will also render your tapwater totally safe for fish. Do NOT use AmQuel, it MUST be the + version.

Your angel might have flexibacter columnaris (the mouth issue) AND septicaemia (the redness under the fins). While meds will deal with the columnaris (Maracyn I AND Maracyn II USED TOGETHER) you will then have to deal with the tank cycling again.

I personally would concentrate on the addition of 1 tsp of salt, and dosing the tank with AmQuel +, and making sure to use either the AmQuel + or PRIME for all future waterchanges.

[BigDaddy]

True luvs...

It says on Prime

"To detoxify nitrite in an emergency, up to 5 times normal dose may be used"

[Julie]

The salt will stimulate the slime coat.
However if she uses maracyn 11, what will happen to whatever bio filter she has in that tank?
I know it likely says does not harm bio filter, but I can almost guarantee you it will to a certain degree.  
What are the ingredients in maracyn 11?  
And if it does ruin whatever bio is left, where does that leave the fish?

Julie

[squeeker]

1/8 of a tsp is the recommended dosage per gallon for epsom salts, which is not useful in this case.

When dosing with NaCl, one teaspoon per gallon, or a 0.1% salt solution, is the required dosage for alleviating nitrite stress.

You're right, Prime will detoxify ammonia and nitrites, and it's probably the best option here.  Even though they're detoxified, they will still show up when you test your tank water with your test kits!

The maracyns will kill the filter.  As long as prime is being used, many water changes would have to be done during treatment.  Afterwards, seeded media could be used to get the cycle going again...

Even if a hospital tank is used, the water quality is still going to be a problem.

[Julie]

"Antibiotics

Many bacterial infections are secondary to injuries caused by parasite wounds or netting. The most common cause of bacterial infections in aquariums is probably poor water quality. I have four personal favorites when it comes to antibiotics for treating fish disease. Each of these antimicrobial agents has its own advantages and disadvantages compared to one another. The simplest to use is Minocycline, which is packaged by Mardel as Maracyn-TwoT. It is important to note what should be obvious but, nevertheless, does cause confusion; Maracyn and Maracyn-Two are not the same antibiotic. Minocycline is an effective medication for many bacterial infections when used at the double dose each day for a minimum of five to seven days. This antibiotic is well absorbed into the systems of fish, making it useful when treating internal infections. Minocycline will turn the water brown and the course of treatment is generally longer than for my two other favorite antibiotics. Minocycline may not be as widely effective as Neomycin or Nitrofurazone. However, Minocycline does seem to be less destructive to biological filtration than Neomycin. Minocycline should be used at 2 mg per gallon each day for five to seven days. Making a water change each day before adding the next dose will help make the medication more effective. You should make a water change after completing any antibiotic treatment, and use carbon or Poly FilterT to remove the remaining medication. "

http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/Treatment-of-Choice.htm
Anyways if using the maracyn 11, monitor the water quality very closely.  This is an antibiotic which kills bacteria.

Julie

[FISHLUVR]

I can't begin to tell you how much I appreciate all the advice you've provided.................so I'll send a cheque and join the Society as a token of my gratitude.

I'm really thinking that the "wooley mouth" diagnosis is probably correct.

Just got back from the store with 6 containers of water.......I'm going to vacumn the tank again........do a 25% water change.......take the carbon and ammonia remover out of the filter......rinse the bio balls in aquarium water (before the water change).......and then medicate with maracyn II.

I can't use salt because of my scaleless loaches.  
I bought two 5 gallon containers to fill with water ....for next time....my daughter lives 2 blocks away and her water is fine, so I'll fill up there.

I will pick up the products that you mentioned.......for now I found a product called TETRA AQUA EASYBALANCE.  It claims to have "NITRABAN" Nitrate reducing granuals.

I'm just REALLY NERVOUS about using the Maracyn II........last time I used it, my nitrite levels SHOT WAY UP..........

Thanks again

[Julie]

You've got a 30 or so gallon, try doing as little water change as possible - maybe 10%
What are your nitrites in the tank currently?
I'm afraid the maracyn will kill your fish.

Julie

[squeeker]

Just keep on top of water changes.  If they have to be done daily, even.  It can be a pain in the rear, but when you have a big, healthy fish afterwards, it makes it worth it.

Believe me, I know... I've spent a month and a half doing daily water changes to pull a fish through dropsy... only to have her relapse a week later.  The python is a permanent fixture running through the living room, now... but it's worth it when they're healthy! (That week that she was between infections, I was so proud of myself!)

About the easybalance:  I don't know if it was a typing mistake or not, but please note that NitrIte and NitrAte are not the same thing.  If you have a nitrIte problem, the so-called "NitrAte reducing granuals" arent' going to be of any help.  I personally don't think that product is any good anyway, but you may find different.  


Good luck!