Questions re: trimming and nutrients

[Peekay]

Okey dokey... here I am, about a month into this tank, and I've got some new questions!

1.  Trimming!
I have a couple of plants that have gotten tall, and a couple that have ugly lower parts and nice tops.  In places where the lower bits are hidden, I would like to cut the tall ones but leave the 'stumps' to grow more nice tops.  Can I cut them to a few inches?   

2.  Fertilizing a low-tech tank
I will be picking up root tabs for crypts/swords, but wonder about column.  I am NOT going to do CO2, so I just want to make sure that IT is the limiter, not any of the other nutrients.  Valerie has mentioned Flourish comp, is that what I should do with this tank?  My nitrates are always 0, and I understand that they should be more like 10ppm in a planted tank?

I'm going to take some pics later today to show a few specific things that I have questions about also!

Tanks as always for your help!

[daworldisblack]

Okey dokey... here I am, about a month into this tank, and I've got some new questions!

1.  Trimming!
I have a couple of plants that have gotten tall, and a couple that have ugly lower parts and nice tops.  In places where the lower bits are hidden, I would like to cut the tall ones but leave the 'stumps' to grow more nice tops.  Can I cut them to a few inches?   

2.  Fertilizing a low-tech tank
I will be picking up root tabs for crypts/swords, but wonder about column.  I am NOT going to do CO2, so I just want to make sure that IT is the limiter, not any of the other nutrients.  Valerie has mentioned Flourish comp, is that what I should do with this tank?  My nitrates are always 0, and I understand that they should be more like 10ppm in a planted tank?

I'm going to take some pics later today to show a few specific things that I have questions about also!

Tanks as always for your help!

1) Yeap for stem plants you can cut the top part and replant them. The bottom will re-grow new side-stems. A few inches should be good.

2) When i had a low-tech tank, I used limited amounts of Flourish Comp and used a few flourish root tabs. From what I've read the flourish ones dont leach out to the column. It also depends on your bio-load for low-tech setups as there might be enough nitrates once the ammonia->Nitrites->Nitrate cycle is done. I used to fear that if i dosed too much Flourish, I'd have an algae bloom so perhaps starting with a minimal dose and increasing only as required could be a good idea.

[fischkopp]

Trimming. Yes, you can leave stumps, new stems will branch out. It helps it there are a few leafs left on it. And there shouldn't be any algae in it. It's the way to propagate stem plants and make them more bushy.

Ferts. You actually don't want anything to limit your plant growth, not even CO2. If you don't want to add it, you have to reduce growth, which is mainly done by reducing light intensity (and duration). You won't be needing a lot of additional nutrients with this method, any commercial NPK will do. Dry ferts  (KNO3, Ca2NO3 for N) are more economical, but also easier to overdose. Your choice.

[charlie]

To add what has being said already - limiting carbon is a no no
Carbon is the building block of plant tissue
no building block = no uptake of nutrients
so like Robert said if you prefer not to supplement carbon take your foot off the gas & stick with plants that are not so speedy or light demanding this will give you a better chance of not limiting carbon.
Errol

[Peekay]

So I'm best at this point to be prepared to start removing the fast growing stem plants?    Also bulk up the bioload substantially... not very many critters in there right now, 7 tetras, 4 otos...

Without co2, will the plants actually die, or just grow very slowly?  Because just slow is fine with me. 

Onwards to anubias and java ferns! 

[daworldisblack]

Without co2, will the plants actually die, or just grow very slowly?  Because just slow is fine with me.  

Not even Excel? I've gotten slow growth(but growth) out of Ludwiga Repens and Rotala Rotundifolia even with no ferts and a little Excel every now and then. Its a 10Gallon with a trio of amanos, an oto, MTS and Red Ramshorn snails with a small family of Killies (10ish - i see babies all the time so I am not sure what they are at now since all of them are in the java moss). Lights are two spiral CFL (25W) bulbs on the hood.

[daworldisblack]

Not even Excel? I've gotten slow growth(but growth) out of Dwarf Sagittaria, Ludwiga Repens and Rotala Rotundifolia even with no ferts and a little Excel every now and then. Its a 10Gallon with a trio of amanos, an oto, MTS and Red Ramshorn snails with a small family of Killies (10ish - i see babies all the time so I am not sure what they are at now since all of them are in the java moss). Lights are two spiral CFL (25W) bulbs on the hood.

HOB filter too so CO2 was probably out-gassed like crazy hence the Excel supplementation - plants can still use it but its just not the preferred form.

[touchofsky]

I am growing bacopa (caroliniana and monnieri) & hygrophila polysperma and sunset in my little LED tank with Excel.  Also, in another tank that is lit with t5no's, I am growing ludwigia repens, bacopa caroliniana, and ammania gracilis with Excel. 

[Peekay]

Well, I would consider it if it was a smaller tank... but at 59G, it could get spendy.
I also want to keep some valisneria that I have, and they're not crazy about Excel, I hear. 

I have two kids under 8, a dog, and a crazy busy life.  I'm looking for the absolute best low input system... trying to do the research and do the right things, cause I know it can be done. 

[fischkopp]

Without co2, will the plants actually die, or just grow very slowly?  Because just slow is fine with me. 

CO2 will be absorbed from the atmosphere, and your bioload (fish and bacteria, even plants at night) will release CO2 into the water column. So there will always be CO2 in the water unless the plants absorb it to fast.

So to answer your question: the plants won't die, but you have to limit their growth rate (by limiting light). It depends a little on the bioload as well. You won't be able to grow all plants though, since some have minimum requirements towards light.

[charlie]

Good read & for those who visit this link buy that cheap book, trust me it`s nothing ground breaking or stuff you can`t get for free, but you will learn heaps if you want to know about fertilization.
http://www.aquaticplantnews.com/apn/non-co2-planted-aquarium/
Oh check out Tom Barr non co2 article.
Errol

[bizfromqc]

Good read & for those who visit this link buy that cheap book, trust me it`s nothing ground breaking or stuff you can`t get for free, but you will learn heaps if you want to know about fertilization.
http://www.aquaticplantnews.com/apn/non-co2-planted-aquarium/
Oh check out Tom Barr non co2 article.
Errol

Link to the TB's Non CO2 methods post here

[exv152]

2.  Fertilizing a low-tech tank... I will be picking up root tabs for crypts/swords, but wonder about column.  I am NOT going to do CO2, so I just want to make sure that IT is the limiter, not any of the other nutrients.  Valerie has mentioned Flourish comp, is that what I should do with this tank?  My nitrates are always 0, and I understand that they should be more like 10ppm in a planted tank?

I have a 125g low tech planted and I dose NPK, seachem eq, and flourish once per week. But go easy at first, the crypts are susceptible to cryp melt with any sudden changes in water chemistry. NO3 of less than 5 or 10ppm means your plants may need more, either by increasing fish load or dosing. What are you PO4 measurements?

[bizfromqc]

I have a 125g low tech planted and I dose NPK, seachem eq, and flourish once per week. But go easy at first, the crypts are susceptible to cryp melt with any sudden changes in water chemistry. NO3 of less than 5 or 10ppm means your plants may need more, either by increasing fish load or dosing. What are you PO4 measurements?

Speaking of measuring all these levels in the tank, can anyone recommend a not too expensive and reliable test kit for measuring those?

[Peekay]

Great links!  Thanks guys.

exv152, I don't have a test for that, so no idea at this time. 

[touchofsky]

I don't own shares in Seachem  , so I am not pushing this stuff, but just to clarify the expense on a yearly basis, I bought a 2 litre jug of Excel for around $34.00, so that would be 2000 mls, and the dose for a 60 gallon tank is 5 ml daily, so that would last 400 days, so more than a year of dosing Excel for under $35.00.

Also, vals haven't reacted badly to Excel in my tanks.  I generally start out with a half dose, then work up to a full dose over the course of a month.  I haven't had any problems with them doing it that way.

[Peekay]

Valerie, when you put it that way....  no 'con' really, is there?
I love how you give advice.  You're so approachable.     

Fishchkopp, I will start playing with the light period, to decrease the rate of growth.  I did post this because there are signs of deficiency, so this advice speaks most to the immediate problem..  thank you for your help!   

[touchofsky]

Thanks, I appreciate your comments.  BTW, what sort of deficiencies are you seeing?

[Peekay]

Some stunting and distortion in new leaves,  and leaves that look 'thin' between the veins.
I haven't looked up what that indicates yet. 

[touchofsky]

Which plants are showing this?