Frustrating water

[Lurch1]

Well, I have a question..........

Well water parameters are pH 7.8, kH 12, gH 22. After peat filtration pH 6.0, kH and gH are 0. In my tank (15 gal), which has been poked and prodded since its conception about a month ago because I am never satisfied, has had many water changes as I have a dirt substrate capped with sand. The current tank parameters are pH 7.6! gH and kH at 6. I would assume by now with pure peat w/c that the original water in the tank would have been changed enough to lower the pH to 6.5 or so. How do I know if my sand is raising my pH? It's regular play sand from HD. The 2 rocks are inert as per BA. I haven't been mixing the peat water with well water before adding to the tank because the pH is to high for my requirements and I am trying to lower it. The original water was a mix of well and peat, but no well water has been added since. I have been doing 30% water changes each time ( usually twice a week).

Am I being paranoid and impatient or do you think there is something in my tank raising my pH?

[Peekay]

Is there a particular reason you need the pH to be lower? 

[Lurch1]

It's for apistos

[exv152]

Why not work with the water parameters you've been given? Because the only real way to lower pH effectively is to use RO water, and that's costly. Also, the fish you buy locally may already be acclimated to harder conditions.

[Nerine]

Where in Ottawa are you?

I used to live in the Vanier area, and my ph was 9 out of the tap and in the tank around 7.5-8 and would NEVER change no matter what I did!

Sand will not change your ph if it's silica or play sand.

Are these fish wild caught? If not, they are used to the city water and will be fine!

[bizfromqc]

It's for apistos

Which Apistogramma are you planning on keeping?

[Lurch1]

I'm out in the boon docks on well water.

Which Apistogramma are you planning on keeping?

Agassizi. I want to attempt breeding them this time round. I had them a while back and was limited because of water parameters.

Where in Ottawa are you?

I used to live in the Vanier area, and my ph was 9 out of the tap and in the tank around 7.5-8 and would NEVER change no matter what I did!

Sand will not change your ph if it's silica or play sand.

Are these fish wild caught? If not, they are used to the city water and will be fine!

Thats what I was concerned about. The peat seams to be working, but maybe the well water is very powerful in reverting it's changes.

[bizfromqc]

I'm out in the boon docks on well water. Agassizi. I want to attempt breeding them this time round. I had them a while back and was limited because of water parameters.
Thats what I was concerned about. The peat seams to be working, but maybe the well water is very powerful in reverting it's changes.

I can't comment on the well water but I've also been using sand (white sillica) and added peat granules in my canister filter. Water out of the tap here (Gatineau) is between 7-7.5 and with the peat granules in the canister, I was able to bring it down to between 6-6.5 so a full unit on the pH scale.

Eric

[exv152]

...After peat filtration pH 6.0, kH and gH are 0 ...The 2 rocks are inert as per BA...

Is 6 pH the minimum your test kit reads? Because if it is, your pH may well be lower than that, and you'd only be able to tell with a wide range test kit ~ 4-9 range. Also, the rocks may not be inert. I've used HD playsand before and have never had it affect my pH.

...I've ... added peat granules in my canister filter. Water out of the tap here (Gatineau) is between 7-7.5 and with the peat granules in the canister...

The peat granules need to be recharged periodically because the magnesium, calcium and other elements are just being held by the peat and can leach back into the water. Using almond or oak leaves is another excellent method of producing blackwater conditions.

[bizfromqc]

Is 6 pH the minimum your test kit reads? Because if it is, your pH may well be lower than that, and you'd only be able to tell with a wide range test kit ~ 4-9 range. Also, the rocks may not be inert. I've used HD playsand before and have never had it affect my pH.

The peat granules need to be recharged periodically because the magnesium, calcium and other elements are just being held by the peat and can leach back into the water. Using almond or oak leaves is another excellent method of producing blackwater conditions.

Definitely, I was planning on testing the water out every so often to see how its doing and possibly change the granules then (monhly maybe). I also have indian almond leaves that I have yet to put in the tank but after a little experimenting, i was hoping I could use both (because I like the look) and strike a good mix of leaves and peat.

Eric

[exv152]

Definitely, I was planning on testing the water out every so often to see how its doing and possibly change the granules then (monhly maybe). I also have indian almond leaves that I have yet to put in the tank but after a little experimenting, i was hoping I could use both (because I like the look) and strike a good mix of leaves and peat.

Eric

This reminds me of something I read a while back about Jack Watley, a world reknown discus expert, who suggested softening tap water with Canadian horticultural peatmoss to breed and keep discus. I've never tried it, but considering the cheap price of peat moss I may just buy some and try it out in a cannister filter. I love the tannins and the look it lends to a biotope-type setup. 

[Nerine]

What are the parameters the fish are being kept in currently ?
Keep in mind those parameters because you don't want to drastically change them!

[Lurch1]

Yeah 6 is the min pH. I am going to try and find the ratio of peat to well water to find a pH of 6.5 with a Kh of 3-6. I noticed little stones in my sand so I am wondering if they are reactive.

[exv152]

Yeah 6 is the min pH. I am going to try and find the ratio of peat to well water to find a pH of 6.5 with a Kh of 3-6. I noticed little stones in my sand so I am wondering if they are reactive.

What if you put some of the peat filtered water in a drinking glass, test it and let sit overnight, then test the ph/kh again within 24hrs. If it hasn't changed then there's a good chance something in your tank is affecting the ph.

[Lurch1]

I actually just did that and will be testing today. I also put some sand and dirt in with straight peat to see if it would alter it. I will post the results later on.

[Lurch1]

So the peat with sand and dirt had a pH of almost 7 over night from 6.4. I have a sand only peat mix now. I have a feeling it's the little stones in the sand. If thats the case then I will have to take the tank apart and replace the sand with pfs. Thankfully its only a 15 gal!

[Fishnut]

I used a substrate called Flora Base when I needed to reduce the PH.  It worked perfectly and I didn't have to do anything!  It's not an instant reduction in PH, but it certainly brought it below 7.

[Nerine]

what type of sand do you have? where did you buy it?

and what type of 'dirt' is it ?

[Lurch1]

Its "play sand" from home depot and the dirt is miracle grow organic potting soil. The sand does have little stones in it along with the sand. It was very dirty and took a lot of washing.

[exv152]

Its "play sand" from home depot and the dirt is miracle grow organic potting soil. The sand does have little stones in it along with the sand. It was very dirty and took a lot of washing.

Have you by chance used that tank previously for something else? I noticed you mentioned you also keep african cichlids.