Request for filter media (Orleans)

[briannesbitt]

Measurements today were :
Ammonia : 0
Nitrite : 0
Nitrate : ~ 10-15
Ph : 7.2

Dare I use the "C" word !

[Shawn84]

You can slowly add new fish now. But i suggest you set up a quarantine tank for all the new fish that you buy from the store.

[daworldisblack]

Woooo.. Partaaayyy! (imagine streamers coming down the screen) Yeap as Shawn suggests, you can start adding fish slowly now. Exciting few weeks coming up!

[briannesbitt]

Ok so via some debate / conversation / research we have come up with the following fish and in their stocking order as well:
6 zebra danios (already in there)
6 black phantom tetras
6 corydoras (mixed species 3+3)
2 pearl gouramis
1 raphael catfish
.... and 2 platys (only if there is room)

Thoughts?  Too many as is?  Is there room for the platys?

Most stay small except for gouramis (~5") and raphael (~6").  We have the "The Simple Guide to Freshwater Aquariums" checked out from the library and he gives stocking ideas for a 29g and 50g aquarium and we took a little variation from there to determine the # of each.  Some people online say the danios and tetras will nip the pearl while others say they are fine.  Hard to know who to believe.  Seems like you could pick any pair of fish and find someone who had issues!

We have a 5 G tank ready to be used as a bare QT when needed.  Our plan is that we would put the 2nd HOB filter from the main aquarium (instant cycle) onto the QT for the week then move the fish and filter back onto the main tank.

[exv152]

Thoughts?  Too many as is?  Is there room for the platys?...Some people online say the danios and tetras will nip the pearl while others say they are fine.  Hard to know who to believe.  Seems like you could pick any pair of fish and find someone who had issues!

We have a 5 G tank ready to be used as a bare QT when needed.  Our plan is that we would put the 2nd HOB filter from the main aquarium (instant cycle) onto the QT for the week then move the fish and filter back onto the main tank.

I don't think you have too many, I just wouldn't add them all at once. A group of five or so every couple of weeks is a good idea, as your tank is still fragile. As for the danios and tetras, they're probably the most friendly of species out there so I wouldn't be too concerned. In fact gouramis are sometimes the aggressors especially with their own kind. The cycled hob filter is an excellent idea! Keep us posted.

[briannesbitt]

Thanks.  Yes I was thinking to add them in their respective groups/school.  Each type / school would be added all at once with weeks in between each group being added.  The order was specific from what I understand to be the "hardy" level as well.  Assuming all would be ok, maybe the platys should be moved up the chain and the gouramis would actually be last.  Maybe just a moot point by that time.

6 zebra danios (already in there)
6 black phantom tetras
2 platys
6 corydoras (mixed species 3+3)
1 raphael catfish
2 pearl gouramis

[briannesbitt]

2 days later with no water change and all water params are still good.

So the QT tank I have is a 5g.  Is that large enough to add 6 black phantom tetras all at once?  What about 6 corydoras or 2 pearl gouramis?

1) Do I need a 10g QT?
2) Should I add them 3 at a time instead. (1 at a time for the pearl)
3) What is a good QT time frame length? 2 weeks?

Honestly I was going to bypass the QT for this first round, but after going for a "scouting" mission at the LFS on Friday and seeing the shape most tanks are in I think its best to start using it right away.

There were 5 raphael's in pretty much a bare tank spread out trying to get any cover possible.  Felt like buying them all :-)  We also saw a group of 4 teenagers buy a "rope fish" because it looked cool.  The clerk posed a few questions (do you have a tank? whats in it now?) but they had no idea.  $20 says it doesn't last 2 days or something else in the tank doesn't last 2 days!

[Shawn84]

The 5 Gallon is fine as a Q tank. But buy each group about a week or 2 apart to give time for your main tank to build up the bacteria. So buy 6 phantom tetra now wait a week or 2 then move them into your main tank and then buy another group. If you do that you should b good.

[Fishnut]

I have a few points...and I apologize for jumping into this thread so late.

#1  QT should be 4 - 6 weeks.  There are MANY diseases that might not show symptoms until well after 1 or 2 weeks.  Things like ich will surface but not flukes or infectious diseases.  When buying new fish I always do the following:

Day 1...Add aquarium salt (or non-iodized salt with no anti-caking agent in it) with all new fish except cory cats and maybe the raphael cat. 
After week 1, do a 50% water change and add prazi...prazi-pro...I can't remember the name but it's one of those.
After another week, do another 50% water change and inspect fish thoroughly for ANYTHING out of the ordinary.
From this point forward, I don't medicate unless I see a need to, I feed just enough to eep the fish alive (not much) and I do regular 20% - 30% weekly water changes. 

NEVER use the same equipment on any other tank.  You'll need a separate hose, bucket, net and ideally a separate can of food.  Wash your hands after each time you do ANYTHING in the QT tank before you go near your healthy tanks.  My personal quarantine is 8 weeks minimum and longer if the fish are going into a tank where the existing inhabitants are not easy to find.  For example, my Giant Auction purchases JUST went in my main display tanks late last month.  I'm neurotic, but I haven't had a massive illness to treat in a long time AND I've saved my established, healthy fish from being exposed to some nasty bugs on some new acquisitions!

#2  I would opt for 6 cory cats of the same species.  They will be happier, school nicely and feel more secure in their environment.  I used to mix cory species in my tank decades ago and it just didn't compare to the larger groups I have in one of my tanks now.

#3  The Pearl Gouramis are AMAZING fish!!  One of my all time favourite gouramis!  When you buy them though, do your best to get 2 of the same sex.  It's really difficult when you see the little ones at 1.5" or so at the LFS but look for the ones that have the most red in the chest and throat.  Those are usually the males.  The reason I say this is that a male/female living together long term will eventually not work.  When the male wants to breed, he's so persistent that I've seen some males chase a female to death.  She either hides and never comes out for food or she simply gets exhausted and stressed.  I make it a habit of only having one in my tanks or many, just in case....or have another tank ready to put the female in

#4 Your QT tank is a perfect size for the fish.  You're not going to be buying a lot of them all at once so it's OK.   There are certain times when the 1" per gallon can be pushed.  Buying 6 young tetras and adding them to a bare tank that is going to be temporary PLUS will be getting a lot of water changes is not a big deal.  Don't do this until you have LOTS more experience...but I once bought 15 tetras/danios and QTed them in a 5 gallon tank...with nothing but a box filter and a heater.  They all lived.  When I go to Toronto, I frequently buy WAY more fish than the 1" per gallon says will fit in my QT tank, yet I always QT them all together...unless the fish will be going into different environments, then they get their own QT tank.  Never a problem with water quality...occasionally a problem with a disease.

#5  You said your tank was 45 gallons?  You should be able to add more fish than your list has in it.

#6  The raphael catfish is so interesting to look at but you may never see it once added.  If that's an acceptable use of 6" worth of inhabitant, great.  There's always a fish that we MUST have!

[briannesbitt]

First, Thanks for the detailed reply!

#1 Ok. My only question here is how do you instant cycle the tank if you are not to share anything?  We have a Fluval C4 and a AC30 on the main 45g tank. We also have an AC20 not being used.  We planned on moving the AC30 to the little tank and putting the AC20 on the main tank while we were using the QT then once complete tear down the QT and put the AC30 back on the main tank.  I guess we could just use the AC20 on the QT only rather than moving them around.  I guess we just seed our own extra sponge media and move it over when we need to setup the QT.  Then once done clean it really well and reseed for the next use?  Or I assume you would suggest throwing it out and just using new each time so it only goes from the main tank to the QT and never back (ie. share nothing!).

#2 Ok.  We like the panda corys or the Julii corys.  Is a school of 4 of each possible?

#3 Thanks.  Same sex it is! As you mention I guess one is also an option for the pearl gourami?  Which is better?

#4 Water changes on a bare 5 gallon should be a breeze :-)  Just need a 50 watt heater and a new AC20 impeller

#5  Yes 45 gallons.  Any suggestions as to some other types that would place nice?

#6  Yes understood... and yes he is a must have! lol  We'll think about it again when it gets time to purchase him to be sure though.

Anybody have a 50 watt heater they want to get rid of?
AC20 impeller or used filter?
Black phantom/skirt tetras?  lol

[Fishnut]

Hmmm...I guess it depends on how much you intend to use the QT tank and where it's located.  Mine is in the basement and running all the time.  I leave a few small fish in it all the time that I like but am not completely attached to.  I used to set it up from scratch by vacumming a tank that had lots of gunk in the gravel and using half that water with half fresh water and using some well used filter media.  I never had a problem but I got sick of doing that, so I just leave it running now.

Theoretically, if the QT period is over and all the fish are healthy, there is no harm in putting the filter back on the main tank.  The fish are all healthy and they're being added, so the same should go with the filter.

I used to use AC filters exclusively.  I need to point out that the maximum gallons stated on the box is exaggerated.  The AC30 is good for up to 20 gallons.  The AC20 is good for up to a 10 gallon.  You're going to need to up your filtration.  Even with both of them running on a 45 gallon tank, it's  really not enough and you'll be putting more effort into keeping your water parameters balanced.  If you're into the AC filters, get an additional AC50.  Put the 30 on one side and the 50 on the other.

When it comes to cory cats, the more the merrier.  I have 6 Sterbae and 6 Brochis in my 72.  They sometimes all hang out together but usually I find all the sterbe in one section and all the brochis in another.  I would be adding more of either but I've exceeded the number of fish I should have in that tank already...lol.  I've seen larger groups of cories and it's an impressive looking group of fish!

Tetra makes a decent submersible heater and I think you can get them at Walmart for around $10 - $12 for a 5 gallon.

As for other additions...I'm loving the rainbow fish.  Not all are suitable for warm water aquariums (most regularly offered rainbows require cooler water temps) so do your research.  Bosmani rainbows are good for warm water tanks and are quite impressive, especially if you have a male/female mix in the group.  The males really show off!!

[Laura]

re. the cories - I would get as large a school of the SAME species as is appropriate for your tank. They love being in a same species group in a way that can't be matched by a mixed group.

[briannesbitt]

We have looked at the bosemani rainbow before.  How many do you think would be OK in our tank given our current list.  Thinking aloud but maybe we do 1 pearl gourami and a smallish school of bosemani rainbow?  (since the gourami isn't a schooler where I understand the rainbows are?!?)

RE: Filters.  We have a Fluval C4 which is Hagen's newer version of the AC70 on one side and the AC30 on the other, heater in the middle.

RE: QT.  I agree in that we will run it constantly with the AC20 on it for a few months until we get the main tank stocked.  It will be a bit of a revolving door for awhile!  Its going to go in my sons room so he'll really enjoy that.  After the main tank is stocked we'll see then and tear it down if its really not being used.

Thanks for all the help everyone! 

[Fishnut]

Let's look at things from a 1" of fish per gallon perspective:

6 zebra danios (already in there) - extremely light as far as waste production is concerned, so barely a ding in your bio load.   They are 1" fish so, there's 6 gallons...BUT since they don't produce much waste, I would cut that in half giving you a 3 gallon occupation.

6 black phantom tetras - They are low on the waste production scale but they can get to be a decent size.  Let's leave them at occupying 6 gallons.

2 platys - average bio load, so together...3 gallon occupation

6 corydoras - average bio load....12 gallon occupation

1 raphael catfish...I'm not too sure what the bio load of this guy is  Many large catfish have a higher than average bio load, so lets give him an 8 gallon occupation.

2 pearl gouramis - average on the bio load so if you have 2 that means a 6 gallon occupation

So far you're up to: 38 gallons!  More room for fish!!!

Bosmani rainbows get to be about 2.5 - 3"and are pretty average on the bio load.  If you get only 1 pearl and add 5 rainbows, you're a bit over your max if you're using the 1" per gallon rule.  Don;t be too concerned about that though.  That's a bit more of a guideline than a rule.  A slight overage is fine, especially if you aren't over-feeding, are doing water changes weekly and over-filter.

OK, for kicks, I just added up the inches of all my fish in my 72 and I shocked myself.  By using the 1" per gallon rule, I would need a 130 gallon tank to house all my fish!  Hmmm...so much for the guideline!  They're all going into a 180 in the winter, so I guess that means I can add more?!

After 20+ years of fish keeping, you can over-stock too   I have over 100 gallons of filtration on the tank though and it get's a 50% water change every week. 

[briannesbitt]

Thanks for the detail.  I think the 1" / gallon is for the general fish keeper who does water changes once every 3 weeks etc.  Not that I am going to overload but we'll be doing weekly water changes and testing the water which I assume is probably more than the average fish keeper.

We'll have to make some decisions here on the final stocking as it goes along.  Maybe we'll forgo the platys and replace them with a 2nd pearl gourami and then top up with the 5 rainbows.  Or maybe we'll nix the Raphael (doubt it) which opens up room for a few more.

We'll also see how it looks as we are populating and might just stop earlier!  Either way we know our limit and at this point about 90% of the stock.

We got a 50 watt heater for $10 from big als and the AC20 impeller.  The 5 G is having a water test done on it right now so tonight might be the night for the black tetras!

[briannesbitt]

Just a quick update.  So last tuesday (june 12) was the night!!

We got 6 black skirt tetras and put them in the 5 G QT tank in my sons room.  1 large one, 2 medium and 3 small ones in the mix.  We actually realized once we got home that one of them was a long finned variety.  We decided that he was still a keeper but also the fins seemed a little ratty/nipped on the edges at first.  Today (a week later) his fins seem much better and flowing in the water as they swim! lol  Even in the 5 g the group stays pretty tight!

We also got 3 little panda corys (thats all they had left and they looked in great shape).  They went into the main tank (first and last time with bypassing the QT :-).  Great fish so far and pretty active all day long.

We just finished water tests on both tanks and they both were A=0, NI=0, NA=~10, pH=6.8/7.0 respectively.

Everything is looking good and all are healthy so far and everyone chows down at food time.  All the plants we had donated to us are growing nicely, except for the duckweed.  Somewhat surprising as most online say its like a weed and grows out of control.  The water lettuce is growing well but not much luck with the duckweed.

We had some snail eggs as well (red ramshorn).  We don't see them there any more and don't see any extra snails so not sure.  Think they disappeared right after the corys went in.  Not sure if they ate them or what.

So I told my son the next batch of fish would be just after the end of his school year! That would have QT'd the black tetras for about 3 weeks.  Our next round will most likely be a pearl gourami and maybe 3 more panda corys to give them some more mates.

Question: Our QT tank is a bare bottom.  How will the panda corys do in that tank?  They will have hiding places but won't have any substrate to browse through?  We also generally keep the light off (its an older/hot incandescent) and let the room light be the daytime.

I contribute our success to our willingness to learn and your willingness to teach!

[touchofsky]

I kept cories for a long time in a bare bottom tank and they were fine, however, I do think they prefer having substrate, but for a short while, they will be fine.

I am glad to hear things are going along well

[exv152]

Actually cories will do quite well in a bare bottom tank in terms of cleanliness. Often you'll see their barbells will get worn down due to bacteria infections, much like fish fins, and it comes from cuts and scrapes they get from rummaging around in gravel (especially sharp gravel). In bare bottom tanks you tend not to see this happen. As far as their preference is concerned, they love fine sand the most.

[briannesbitt]

We jumped the gun by a few days and made this past Sunday a fish day!

After visiting 2 fish stores to see what the stock was like we decided to stick to our list and buy 2 pearl gouramis and 3 more panda corys.  All are doing well and are in the QT tank.  We also added a short piece of 1 1/2" black plumbing pipe for the corys for some extra cover in the QT :-).

The 6 black skirt tetras are now in the main tank.  Since we got them, their fins and colour have improved and never showed any signs of stress.  They have been fed in the main tank and all came up for food no problem.  They school much more tighter than the zebra's ever did but I do notice the danios schooling a little more often since the tetras have come in.

We were very close to getting a striped raphael instead!  I think he has made it back onto our future list.  Anyway, a few more weeks to decide again.

[daworldisblack]

Haha.. Dont make jumping the gun a habit! :p Its always fun fish shopping though. Getting through your wish list in a timely fashion is HARD! But eventually it gets done and its awesome Lets see some progress pics soon!