ATTENTION: CHANGES TO OVAS WEBSITE AND CLASSIFIEDS

[charlie]

The timing here is very important.

Since memberships are refreshed in September, there is a lag between decisions and membership numbers for more than a year. If I get a membership in September 2010, then quit in October 2010, you won't see that reflected in your membership count until September 2011-2012 (1-2 years later). As far as I know when the classified where reopened, there was not a concerted effort to bring back those that left when they were closed, and many still don't even know they were reopend, since they have never returned. Your current low numbers in of 2011-12 clearly show the consequences of the decisions of 2010.

Dave a question for you-Is mebership onl;y bought in Sept?

[dpatte]

Most people buy their memberships in September, since that when it is required, in order to remain a member. Renewals are a large part of membership, or at least that what I saw in the past. (wild guess, 70%)

So those that drop out of a club midyear are still counted by the club as members until the next September. But since they will not renew the next September, it is the next full year season that shows the consequences of those that decided the previous mid-year not to renew. If a person leaves a club midyear, you will not see the membership counts dip until the next renewal season.

So, unlike positive actions of the club which can increase membership counts immediately, negative actions of the club have a lag of up to almost two years in membership counts.

All club actions have some people that like them, and some that don't. When a change is made, if it it turns off the majority of members, you will still see a few people that like it and memberships will continue to grow that season. The next year, those that disliked it will not renew causing a large drop in membership. So if 2011-2012 had a loss of membership from the previous year, it was actions of the club in 2010-11 that caused it.

[bergenm]

Just my opinion, but I think we are arguing different sides of the same coin - I think both the closing of the classifieds in 2010 and the opening of the classifieds in 2011 contributed to this problem, along with several other factors...

[dpatte]

If you opened the classified during the 2011-12 year, it would have little effect to restore the membership immediately, since it would only influence those that became aware of it, many of which never discovered that - since it was hidden in the classified not the forum, and they had already made a consious decision to act elsewere through other websites and clubs. I not sure when it was reopened, and only discovered it a few weeks ago, for example.

I believe the only way to grow the club is to act on the majority wishes of its members, since they are the core and the majority that will renew the next year; and use all tools available to welcome non-members and past members to the site through social networking.

I have no more comments on this. I have been harping since 2010 when the original decision was made.

If you feel you would like to discuss it offline, you have my contact info.

[charlie]

Most people buy their memberships in September, since that when it is required, in order to remain a member. Renewals are a large part of membership, or at least that what I saw in the past. (wild guess, 70%)So those that drop out of a club midyear are still counted by the club as members until the next September. But since they will not renew the next September, it is the next full year season that shows the consequences of those that decided the previous mid-year not to renew. If a person leaves a club midyear, you will not see the membership counts dip until the next renewal season.

So, unlike positive actions of the club which can increase membership counts immediately, negative actions of the club have a lag of up to almost two years in membership counts.

All club actions have some people that like them, and some that don't. When a change is made, if it it turns off the majority of members, you will still see a few people that like it and memberships will continue to grow that season. The next year, those that disliked it will not renew causing a large drop in membership. So if 2011-2012 had a loss of membership from the previous year, it was actions of the club in 2010-11 that caused it.

I can tell you that was not the case & can only assume you are guessing from past history & theory which is understandable due to you hiatus from the hobby, a lot has changed & in my opinion this this change was largely influenced by the tone set by the forum from a few years ago coupled with changes in society, we are trying to get the club streamlined, give us ( the execs. that volunteered) the chance to execute our vision for the club , then crucify us in May 2013 at which time there will be a full report on Membership status, meeting attendance & the financial status along with the state of apathy the "club" have then compared to now, this should reflect the result of our efforts.
At that point everyone is free to nominate & elect a better Exec.
Regards
Errol AKA Charlie
President
2012-2013

[Janny]

This is my first year as an OVAS member and I would never have joined if it wasn't for the positive experiences I had with the classifieds. I have posted some give-aways and bought some, but certainly wouldn't have felt very welcomed if I was barred from placing an ad as a new "face" around here.

We need to reach more people. The community is what will drive memberships up, and the bickering and infighting, selective deleting, etc will drive people away.

I don't want to be involved in the drama... I just want to feel welcome and free to connect with fellow hobbyists at whatever pace or level is comfortable for me. I met some awesome OVAS members and that is what influenced me to join.

Similarly, the bickering could influence me to not renew.

[shaheed]

I'm a new 'non-member' and new to Ottawa as well.  I've lived in various cities and been a part of various marine forums.  I didn't realize this was more of a private club, than a forum.  I'm not sure if there are other ottawa forums (couldn't find any on google) but if there are maybe someone could PM me and I could join.

What I've seen in all the forums' I've been a part of:  free classifieds work..

I understand the reason behind the decisions being made here on OVAS, and I respect them.  I also understand that the new forum that is created will have more people and a larger classifieds section, and will be welcome to all of the sponsors as well.  Win-win situation for all.

Thanks for everything to everyone, I sincerely mean it.  And I don't mean to be rude or ungrateful -- but I think the best solution here is to just create a  new forum.  A free one, that is just like 'all the other ones' and go from there.  People who want more than just a forum can pay for the extra benefits and remain here -- those who just want to post, read and surf through classifieds can go to the new one.  People can do both as well! 

[Feivel]

I dont thi.k creating a free forum will benefit anything. The point is how to drive membership sale so we can benefit from more events and or items for the draws and such. Maybee they could revamp their membership strategies instead. Offer new members a 1 or 3 month all inclusive free membership. Then they can chat and read and post classifieds etc. once the grace period ends they can still read but not post if they enjoyed the forum only charge for 5-10$/year and if you want to participate in the Group events 15$ and with the full membership you get the 10% discount and all the trimmings 20$. Or some sort of system as such. Maybee the value of 5$ to be able to post on our communties forum and classifieds could be low enough to drive some forum only sales and generate a few $ for the needs of ovas. after all some us do profit quite a bit off the forsale section ... It would be nothing for us to show a bit of support for the guys who keep this all running and their events wether you decide to participate or not

My thoughts

[Darth]

You can check there is a free classified section in there. You can find there also people that have left OVAS And the same sponsors too.

Good luck

not for nothing but I feel this is kind of disresect, yes we are all aware there are other forums, and we all have STRONG opinions on what's going on, but like ALL the execs have said if you want to change volunteer, put your name in the exec hat, I don't believe "dissing" the club even in an indirect way as this (perhaps I am wrong with the intent, but the inclination of the "you can find other people that left OVAS" to me speaks volumes. I am not trying to start another debate because lord knows this one went on way to long. There have been others here who have shown interest in other forums, and were kindly asked to be pm'd the info, the point of this discussion was to try and figure out a way to drive ovas memberships, and the reasons behind the change, telling people to go somewhere esle is damaging to the club and not good form IN MY OPINION only. Bottom line no one makes us come to the forum, we come because we like it, and we leave because we don't. I have seen people come and go, and this is more than just an aquatic forum, its a place to meet and and share life.

Suggestions for meetings, why not have an online meeting? set up a chatroom and a time, perhaps more people would rather do that then go to a central meeting place? I know there are times when meeting in person is a necessity, but online chat would be way more cost effective, and may have a better turn out, and save in person meetings for things like that perhaps around the auction times, or twice a year? I don't know just throwing stuff out as it hits me.

[Fishnut]

You can check. there is a free classified section in there. You can find there also people that have left OVAS And the same sponsors too.

Good luck

Prime example of why it was shut down.  Some people can't follow the SIMPLE forum rules!  Statistically, it is the non-members by a landslide.  I'm sorry everyone if you disagree, but it was getting to be a logistical nightmare to keep everyone in line and to keep the classifieds a fair atmosphere for all.

If you're upset about the classifieds being shut down, don't get mad at the exec, get mad at those who ruined it for the rest of us.  They're the ones who have no respect for the VOLUNTEERS and even less respect for the simple, common sense, clearly spelled out rules of conduct on this forum.

Thank you, everyone who has been respectful, and I'm sorry you're loosing something that you had no hand in ruining.

[Cbellehumeur]

I'm a new 'non-member' and new to Ottawa as well.  I've lived in various cities and been a part of various marine forums.  I didn't realize this was more of a private club, than a forum.  I'm not sure if there are other ottawa forums (couldn't find any on google) but if there are maybe someone could PM me and I could join.

What I've seen in all the forums' I've been a part of:  free classifieds work..

I understand the reason behind the decisions being made here on OVAS, and I respect them.  I also understand that the new forum that is created will have more people and a larger classifieds section, and will be welcome to all of the sponsors as well.  Win-win situation for all.

Thanks for everything to everyone, I sincerely mean it.  And I don't mean to be rude or ungrateful -- but I think the best solution here is to just create a  new forum.  A free one, that is just like 'all the other ones' and go from there.  People who want more than just a forum can pay for the extra benefits and remain here -- those who just want to post, read and surf through classifieds can go to the new one.  People can do both as well! 

+1

I'd be up for a new forum with less drama!!!

[dpatte]

http://ovas.ca/forum/index.php?topic=54455.0

[Feivel]

Online meetings:

When i first started with ovas there was indeed a chat section. Kinda why im here in the first place. I remeber every monday sometimes up to 20 people would meet up and chit chat about their saltwater tanks. I loved it bought my saltwater tank there, my first coral.received advoce and now im sharing and teaching. I spoke with mark callahan (mr.saltwatertank) and a few other experts that would come and share their expertise. When they changed the format the removed this option. We asked why and apparently never did get a good answer. Just because and we will see or were working on it. i thought it was a great tool in communication. To my knowledge it was the only thing the salties had from ovas. I know the meeting are geared more freshwater and may ee the chat was our meeting point. With busy maintenance schedules its all the time we had to chat between water changes lol. I would like to see this option come back. Or at least be considered. It was fun.

[Fishnut]

Good suggestion with the chat.  I remember a few planted tank things going on there as well.  I'm not 100% sure on this (I wasn't on the exec committee when it happened) but I think there was a software issue with it or when we did an update, it wasn't available any more...something like that.

I'll see if I can find out.

Is everyone generally happy with the functionality of the forum?

[Feivel]

Something like that. So far the forum is good to what i have experienced (technicallity wise)

[Cheebs]

I enjoy the forum and everything seems nice and smooth... Me and some others tried to push for separate Tank Build threads and all that extra jazz a while ago, and lo and behold, now we have them No complaints here.

[Feivel]

Another thought. Were do we buy our memberships? It could be a good idea to leave some with the sponsors. Also would be cool to have an ovas sticker on the door of our sponsors as i had not found ovas until quite a while after being on the fresh side of things and wondered why it was never
advertised.

[bitterman]

Another thought. Were do we buy our memberships? It could be a good idea to leave some with the sponsors. Also would be cool to have an ovas sticker on the door of our sponsors as i had not found ovas until quite a while after being on the fresh side of things and wondered why it was never
advertised.

You can purchase memberships at the ovas bbq, online, membership drives and ovas meetings.

If that does not work I might be able to meet you after work some day.

Bruce

Note: Please wait to use the online store until it is updated to support 2012-2013 Memberships it is still selling 2011-2012 memberships as per "Membership purchased now are valid until the end of September 2012." on http://ovas.ca/ovas/about-ovas/membership

[robt18]

Keep your eyes open for membership drive information at some of our sponsors' stores soon

[Greatwhite]

I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned, but there's 6 pages of responses on this thread now - and I'm far too lazy to read all the way through it.

I'd just like to comment on the "lockdown of classifieds"...  People are going to find a way to tell everyone when they have stuff to sell.  If the classifieds are locked down, expect to see a bunch of new posts in the forums saying "I have *this random thing* to sell, PM me" - possibily even including the price.  I don't know if it's a bigger job to moderate the classifieds or the forum itself, but it's really just shifting the work over elsewhere.

The number of posts in the classifieds will also plummet, because lots of the users posting in there are non-members as it is.

Ultimately, "the powers that be" will do what makes most sense for the community...  If locking down the classifieds increases membership, coolbeans.  I think I'm due to renew, and will be doing that very soon - and not to use the classifieds. I find the value of the group knowledge in this forum to be worth the membership fee...  And some day, I'll remember to flash my OVAS card when buying items from sponsors.