Synodontis & Ich

[dpatte]

Besides my 210, I have two 70 gallon tanks. One has been holding 3 Synodontis cats, and single african cichlid.

The tank has been stable since I moved the fish from a 150 gallon a month ago. All chemistry is good. I added 12 small-medium yellow labs a few days ago.

Though I have had the synos for years, and the african cichlid for at least 6 months, I then decided to take a few pictures of the fish so I could post them here to get them identified.

I believe two are S.  robbianus or S. obesus. The larger of these two is almost 5 inches.
The third one looks somewhat like S. multipunctata. It is also almost 5 inches.
The african chlid is probably P.zebra, but it is OB with 'egg-spots' on both the dorsal and anal fins.

But while up close taking the pictures, I noticed the two largest Synos had ich-like spots, mostly on their bellies. I couldn't believe it was ich, since the fish had had no new introductions for almost 6 months, and they were moved from a 150 gallon to their own 70 gallon over a month ago.

But after insepcting them each day this week, i decided that it was indeed ich after they started hanging near the surface at the front glass. They are normally hidden under rocks unless its dinner time. Something was definately wrong, so I started treating for ich tonight.

I have increased the temperature to 30C (87F) and I am using Kordon rid-ich plus according to directions. I'll keep people posted, but if you have advice, please let me know.

P.S. none of the african cichlids are showing any signs of ich.

[dpatte]

Second day, and the tank, which turned blue with the first dose of ridich+ looked much better, but the fish looked much worse. I siphoned the bottom and replaced 1/3 of the water and redosed. The tank went blue again. At least the fish are still eating.

I was out all day and when I got back the tank looked horrid. The darker syno is looking terrible, now with ragged fins, and both now have cloudy eyes - and the tank has gone totally cloudy with a white/grey haze to the water. The synos fish are hanging near the surface and all th fish are breathing heavily.

I syphoned 1/3 of the water again, and redosed, and also added a large airstone to add more oxygen to the water which is at 29C. If I don't lose at least one Syno, I'll be surprized. The only thing that gives me hope is that I did cure several large balas that where in worse shape several years ago.

Sunday may not be a good day.

[exv152]

Sorry to hear that. The problem with some meds is they can kill beneficial bacteria which might be why the water has gone cloudy. I would test for ammonia and nitrites to rule out a new cylce.

[elk]

are you having this problem in your 210 or 70?

[Feivel]

stress related?  i know the salt side thats the most common cause. but salt is different. the actual marine ich is worse. you dont see any signs of it until its too late. by that time its fatal, but your freshwater so dont worry about that lol

[dpatte]

Rid-ich plus says it doesnt interfere with the nitogen cycle. This tank is in my wall rack, and I now suspect that the problem was caused by a heater that wasn't working. The tank is in my basement, close to the floor, and maybe it getting too cool at night which stressed out the fish.

Fortunately the fish made it through the night last night though they are not eating - so I will keep you all posted.

[sas]

Glad to hear everyone is okay so far hopefully you caught it in time.
I always dislike using meds, but sometimes you have no choice.
Keeping fingers crossed for your guys that they do well.

[dpatte]

The darker syno still has a lot of spots on him, but the lighter one seems to have less spots. They both still have cloudy eyes. But the dark one, who wouldn't eat last night at all is now eating again, and even swimming normally more often (instead of just head-up at the surface) - though both are still out in the open - not normal for them at all. They were even chasing each other back and forth, a little odd considering how ill the brown one still looks.

I syphoned and redosed again, but I think the heat was a bit much for them yesterday so its now set to 29C instead of 30C.

ammonia 0, nitrite 0.25, nitrate 5, pH 7.2

[dpatte]

I checked out the tank today and the synos were not visible!

But I added some food, and they appeared from the rockwork. They are certainly in better shape, with a lot less white spots, and in a better general mood. The temperature is a fair bit lower than the last few days, so this may also be part of their better mood. I think I may be on top of this!

I'll ensure the water still stays at at least 28C, and will w/c & redose for 4-5 days after the last white spot is visible.

[dpatte]

GOOD NEWS

Well, I am happy to say that I see no white spots at all on any of the fish! The darker synodontis look a little beat-up, worse-for-wear, but his behaviour is quite normal now.

But the synos both have cloudy eyes, and other bacterial signs (peeling?), which hopefully will disappear shortly. The cichlids in the tank seem to have picked up a bit of a shimmy.

So I will continue the process of water change and treatment till the end of the month to ensure the ich is defeated. And I'll keep the temperature near 28 for a while and add some epsom salts and baking soda to increase the hardnesses, which should reduce the shimmying.

As for the cloudy eyes, any suggestions?

[robt18]

You could use a bacterial med like Maracyn, but it'll go away on its own as long as your tank conditions are still good. Keep on top of water changes and don't overfeed for a while and it'll clear up on its own naturally.

[dpatte]

All the fish recovered without a loss. The tank is still somewhat warm (80F) compared to 75F, that I normally keep it.

I almost lost the fish the second night of treatment due to the heat of the water incombination with the medication and their infection, but ridich supposedly doesn't need a heat increase. If you decide to increase heat for treating ich, don't forget to add a significant airstones or surface agitation.

I originally intended to take photos of some of the fish in the tank for identification, but I will put those on a different thread.

[sas]

Good stuff, that's great you had no fish losses, so many times when people use meds, the outcome is usually not pretty.
Thanks for keeping us updated.

[Fishnut]

Good work!

Has anyone tried to use Prazi for ich?  I treat all the new fish with it just in case they're coming in with flukes, but I read somewhere that it's a great med for getting rid of a lot of other external parasites.  Since ich is a parasite, I've wondered if it would work.

dpatte, if you were to add some almond leaf to your tank, they might help the synos get better.  The extract that leaches from the leaves acts like a natural antibiotic.  It makes the water nice and brown, but a sack of charcoal after the fish are better will get rid of the brown.  There also something that looks like little pine cones that people add for the same reason.  I forget what it's called though.