Hammer & frogspawn not opening

[RickGervs]

Hi,

So I did a WC about a week ago and maybe two days after the WC my hammer and frogspawn stopped opening. I also changed my GFO and the type of carbon while doing the WC.

I test my WC water and it's fine. My aquarium water is fine as well, no phosphate, a bit of nitrate but always had nitrates. I use RO/DI.

Any idea?

Thanks

[rgauvin]

ph and alk?

did you check the TDS of the water before mixing in the salt?

[RickGervs]

I don't have a alk tester

PH is about 8.0-8.2

TDS is at 0

[Hookup]

I don't have a alk tester

PH is about 8.0-8.2

TDS is at 0

A) How did you get your tank to have TDS of 0ppm?  (you didn't, btw... just adding salt to RO/DI will, buy nature of disolving salt and elements, put it up... let alone fish pee/poop, etc)

B) Not testing Alk is your problem.  Corals require testing of Ca/Alk/Mg ... temp and salinity and ph as well.

[robt18]

TDS was measured on the RO water before mixing I think ^

Agreed that alk could be your issue though, if you haven't tested and its way out of whack, that'd be your problem!

[Hookup]

TDS was measured on the RO water before mixing I think ^

Agreed that alk could be your issue though, if you haven't tested and its way out of whack, that'd be your problem!

ahhh.. yes.. reading is not my strong suit. 

makes much more sense...

[xenon]

Alk is the #1 most important factor after salinity.

I suspect alk also. I have tried many kits and the Hanna Checker is the easiest and most consistent of the bunch.

[RickGervs]

Mmm so I guess Alk test is my best bet right now, TDS is tested on RO/DI.

[xenon]

Mmm so I guess Alk test is my best bet right now, TDS is tested on RO/DI.

TDS has absolutely nothing to do with why your corals are not coming out.

You need to make sure to keep calcium, alkalinity and magnesium stable for optimal coral health and growth. Those are considered the "big 3" to test and dose on a regular basis. Salifert makes a really good calcium and magnesium test kit.

Once you are comfortable testing those 3, you can then test for phosphates (hanna checker) and nitrates (salifert). Keeping those levels low are the biggest factors for coloration once you get into the more difficult corals like SPS.

Keep us updated with your progress!

[RickGervs]

Phosphates are at 0 right now and nitrates around 10-20 I think..

Once I test my alk & calcium, what can I do to lower or increase (i don't know how it works) these?

[xenon]

Phosphates are at 0 right now and nitrates around 10-20 I think..

Once I test my alk & calcium, what can I do to lower or increase (i don't know how it works) these?

I doubt your phosphates are 0 with a hanna checker with nitrates that high.

There is not much you can do to lower cal/alk/mag other than letting the corals consume it.

To increase cal/alk/mag you need additives. There are tons of options on the market. So far the cheapest on the market is from bulkreefsupply. In a pinch, you can get bottles of Kent Marine from big als.

[RickGervs]

I thought my GFO took care of my Phosphate, tested my phosphate and they were at 0

[xenon]

I thought my GFO took care of my Phosphate, tested my phosphate and they were at 0

Yes, GFO is very effective in reducing phosphates.

What test kit are you using to test PO4?

Remember, if you had a true reading of 0 for phosphates, your corals would be dead.

Corals need some phosphates to survive so its a fine balance.

Agressive use of GFO could be a reason why your euphyllias are not doing so great.

[RickGervs]

I don't know exactly what test kit I'm using.

I don't aggressively use my GFO I've been using it the same way for a few months now

[xenon]

I don't know exactly what test kit I'm using.

I don't aggressively use my GFO I've been using it the same way for a few months now

Standard test kits for PO4 cant detect in the lower levels.

You really must be careful with GFO because you may truly have 0 phosphates and if you maintain that level, your corals will die.

What size is youur tank, how heavy is your bioload, what GFO media are you using and how much do you use? Do you run the reactor 24/7?

[RickGervs]

I have a 46 Gal tank I have about 10 corals and 6 fishes. I am using 2 two little fishies Phosban Reactor 150. I am using a MJ1200 into the first one (Carbon) leading into the second one (GFO).

Both reactors are about 40% full and the pellets are just mumbling on top

It is running 24/7

[Hookup]

There are two types of Phosphate.  Organic and Inorganic.  One is testable by standard hobby kits, the other is not.

PO4 of 0ppm is not necessarily 0ppm.  You can have an equilibrium at play where po4 is being consumed as fast as it is being produced thus creating the "no freely available po4.  Often people with algae issues swear they test at 0ppm P04.  This simply is not the case.  Their algae is simply eating it quickly.

Having a reading of 0ppm, if true, is like Xenon said, a really bad thing...  but showing 0ppm, having no algae issues and good growth and coloration is an excellent indication of equilibrium.


Carbon will help get rid of DOC (dissolved organic compounds) which can turn into phosphates and nitrates, however the real value of Carbon its ability to scrub the water of yellowing agents (oxidizing agent).  This improves your lighting performance as the clearer the water, the better the PAR penetration, but also can be associated with increased REDOX.  All Carbon is not equal.  watch out for brands that actually add phosphates!

GFO is an excellent way of going beyond your systems natural phosphate processing load.

[xenon]

40% full of GFO media for a 46g tank? WOW. There is your problem.

Without having a proper test for PO4 (hanna checker), I would not run GFO period, let alone that aggressive.

I would take it offline and feed heavy for the next few days to see if there is any improvement in your corals.

Also a maxijet1200 is a ton of flow. I would get another powerhead and provide the GFO with a maxijet400.

Keep us updated with your progress.

[RickGervs]

So it doesn't matter if I'm only running carbon?

I have a valve for my reactors so the flow is not that fast

[xenon]

So it doesn't matter if I'm only running carbon?

I have a valve for my reactors so the flow is not that fast

I am glad to hear you have it dialled back. Having the carbon reactor before GFO will also limit the flow through the GFO media so you should be fine if that is how its setup.

To give you perspective, I use 30ml of media in my TLF150 reactor and I have 150g total water volume and a medium to heavy bioload. I am WAY under the recommended amount of media because its just too powerful. I can drop my PO4 0.01 per hour so I only run it for a few hours per day.

I just think you have WAY too much media for your bioload/tank size. I would get a PO4 hanna checker and take the GFO offline and test daily until I got detectable levels of PO4. Then I would start with a small amount of media and ramp it up if its not effective enough.

If you want to leave it on 24/7, you are going to need to feed, feed, feed! The only problem with that is your nitrates will skyrocket. Look into carbon dosing (vodka, sugar, vinegar) if you have an oversized skimmer.