Saltwarer/Reef, what do I need?

[Reefguy]

  OK so doing a nano saltwater/reef tank with a Fluval Edge 6 gallon. So I know I need 5 to 6 lbs of live rock, some live sand. Need a salt water solution, Proper lighting, filtration and beneficial bacteria. I also red somewhere that I need a nano water pump that directs water around the live rock. Also need a salt water test kit and a hydrometer I think its called, the one that is used to check the salinity of the water. I also know that it takes around 6-8 weeks before adding live stock but at week 6 you can add a clean up crew.

  OK so saying this, what else am I missing. I have looked all over and nobody has a direct answer to how long you should have your lights on during the live rock/sand cycle process. Also nobody talks about if you do water changes during this cycle or not? I have many questions that I have found a lot of good answers but these are questions I am looking for answers to. I am looking to start it up in the next few weeks as I get all the information I need to start it up. I don't want to start and have missing things in the tank.

  Looking forward to great answers from all you salt water/refers out here.
  Thanks. Reefguy

[dbl_dbl]

No need for lights or water changes during the cycle process. Lights can be used if you want to keep the photosynthetic organisms on the LR alive, and the coraline algae, but otherwise, I ususally leave mine off or have very short photoperiods...maybe a few hours for viewing and testing each night. As for water changes, allow the tank to cycle without interrupting it with a water change. The onnly exception is if you get Ammonia readings at or above 5ppm Ammonia. Dr. Tim wrote in one of his papers that at 5ppm, both fresh and saltwater bacteria suffer. It would take something drastic to produce that much ammonia in your tank though, especially if the LR is quality.

Also, be weary of arbitrary "x amount of weeks for this livestock" advice. It's a nice general guideline, but really the water parameters should decide when you can add livestock. Cleaning crew can be the first purchase, fish and softies come after the tank has been stable with 0 Ammo, 0 Trite and a low number of Trates along with a stable salinity for a couple weeks. Most important thing is that you understand how to keep your nitrogen levels low and your salinity stable before you add any of the more sensitive livestock.

I'll let the more knowledgeable members pick that to peices now and go back to hiding

[Greatwhite]

I've always been told that when cycling, you should be running the tank on the same light cycle as if it was stocked.  The main reason for this is to get the system balanced and used to X hrs of light a day.  Small tanks like that can be very sensitive to change.

Beneficial bacteria likes light...

As for "filtration", I assume that you are referring to a small skimmer, and not a HOB filter (like a penguin bio-wheel like the one that I got with my first "All in one, ready to go Salt water" system... with a crappy 1 bulb fluorescent fixture)

Salt water tanks cost quite a bit up front to do right.  Now's not the time to try to save money.  That said - check Kijiji and Used Ottawa for used complete systems.. You might luck out and get something great!

[xenon]

Lights off and no water changes during your cycle is what I do.

6g Fluval Edge is a great tank to start. I have a few corals in my edge so I have my auto dosing system add alkalinity on a daily basis to keep things stable.

I also do 80% water changes every week to maintain low phosphates/nitrates. It's a cheap/easy solution to pollution.

Any plans on what you want to keep in there?

Check out my build thread in my signature.

[Papou]

The best thing to build a reef is lots of PATIENTS 

[Reefguy]

   Wow, well first off thanks all for the great information. I am always looking for the most information possible. For filtration I am using the filtration system hat came with my tank. Its the equivalent or smaller then the aqua clear 20. The lighting is sufficient to what it comes with.

   Ok so for filtration should I use the carbon and the media it comes with? Is live araganite better then live sand/ My local fish store says the granular is bigger then the sand so that the power head wont be moving it everywhere. Also as for live rock what do you recommend.  Some Tokaka or Fiji LR better? Not sure if the Tokaka makes sense. All I know is that they sell it about 10$ a pound and I would like to use 5 lbs, not sure if I should use the  1 pound per gallon in the tank and that would make it 6 pounds for a 6 gallon tank or should I just go 5 pounds? I know I got lots of questions. Is a protein skimmer a must since its under 10g? Do I use instant Ocean or Reef crystal? I see a lot only use the instant ocean. Anything else I would need?

   Again thanks for all the great help. Now I know what to do when I get it ready. Just need more info. So I reside int he Pembroke area in case you all are wondering. That's why I keep saying the local fish store does not have much.  I am on Skype usually. If you all need more info or pictures so you know what I am working with I can get them if it makes it easier..

Thanks
Reefguy Pat

[Darth]

as I said previously live sand is nothing but wet sand in a bag with bacteria starter sand grades are personal preference if the power head is blowing it around there is too much flow, live rock can be had much cheaper than $10 lb  some rick is denser then others so honestly use your preference check your local kijiji as you may find some lots cheaper salt everyone has a preference, I have always used IO salt, when I had my 5 gal nano I also did 80% water changes as well media in your filter I would not put anything in it and just use it for water movement, all the filtration you need will come from the live rock, just make sure there is enough movement (without blowing the substate all around)

I have also cautioned against such a small tank for just starting up, as I said a lot can go wrong real fast and there is not enough volume to recover from as easily, unfortunately when it comes to sw by the time you realize there is a problem it is too late good luck though let us know if you have any other questions

[xenon]

For filtration, all you need is liverock and some filter floss in your HOB filter. You can certainly run carbon but I doubt it will make much difference. Live rock choice is very personal. The lighter the better (more porous = more surface area for bacteria). All you need is 6lbs.

Large water changes will be your primary method for nutrient export. It makes no sense to have a skimmer on such a small tank when a few $$$ worth of salt will solve all your issues.

I personally dislike Instant Ocean RC because its so high in alkalinity. I currently use Tropic Marin Pro Reef but you can use any salt that mix at the proper parameters that you like. Don't buy a hydrometer, get a refractometer for measure salinity and calibrate it before use.

The stock LED v2 Fluval Edge light was not enough to keep some of the easiest soft corals happy so unless you plan to keep it fish only, it will need to be upgraded. The small EcoPico strips is a great way to add more light and make it look less white.

[Feivel]

maybee he could try the new par 32 led, it spins in a standard light socket and apparently are really great. they retail about 100$. Im sure your local LFS could order one in for you if not in stock.

Heres to get an idea:
http://www.ledwholesalers.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=702

As for the nano, well +1 to darth's comments, the bigger the better for salt. i would definately recomend starting no smaller than a 30g with a sump, but if you insint on troubling yourself with the nano tank, then so be it. just be warned. as for live sand, again how long can bacteria survive in a bag, in a 6g you need a handfull of sand anyways. some established live rock from someone shouldnt be hard to get to seed your tank with. heck i have a 6lb dry rock, another one is 10, and a 8lb i have to rescape my tank with. 75g mix reef. the live rock and water changes are your filtration methods, not much you can pack on the back of a nano.

Can i ask you what you intend to keep in the nano? what fish would you like or even in the future keep such fish. lets say Dory? or a lionfish? One question would answer fish only, the other would answer what tank size you should be setting up. your selection of fish is at a very minimum with the 6g. like a goby, firefish and maybee a nemo (clownfish) a few hermits, snails, maybee a small cleaner shrimp and a few easy soft corals, vs a bigger tank with 10 fish and 30 corals and tons of cool stuff to watch go about their business.

Im not trying to say you cant do the 6g, just recomending against it. The last thing we want is for you to loose interest in the salt hobby because of the expert skill and difficulties it requires to maintaing such a small tank. and on top it wont be long until you decide to upgrade anyways, its ok we all do and will be here to answer your questions

[Reefguy]

Well, All I keep hearing is don't do it. Very discouraging. My wife won't let me go for a bigger tank than the one I have or I would have gone bigger.  I know its a lot of work. I got no problem with that. I take very good care of my fresh water tank with the water changes every 2 to 3 days and I monitor everything every 4 days. I got my tank set up as a dry set up ATM with nothing running. Meaning no water no light no nothing. Its just sitting on my desk. Well got most of the info I need so far. Looks like I will be packing it away and putting back my 5g Fresh water tank. Thanks for all the great info.

Reefguy Pat

[Darth]

sorry if it seems like we are saying don't do it, I guess it should have been more of don't get discouraged if things go wrong, even the most expirienced reefers have problems with a nano. I was just trying to say this is what could happen. There are lots of variables thats all, didnt mean to discourage you

[Reefguy]

Oh well. I know their is a lot of work with a nano. I would be doing the salinity checks every day I would wait for everything to be just right before doing the steps of putting live into the tank. But their is no point anymore. I will just use my edge as a lame freshwater tank. Thanks for all the info.

Reefguy Pat

[Stussi613]

Oh well. I know their is a lot of work with a nano. I would be doing the salinity checks every day I would wait for everything to be just right before doing the steps of putting live into the tank. But their is no point anymore. I will just use my edge as a lame freshwater tank. Thanks for all the info.

Reefguy Pat

Hey Pat, I hope you don't think we were trying to tell you it can't be done, just pointing out the issues that can come up. I'm not an authority on saltwater tanks, I've never actually had one...but I was sharing the process I went through in deciding whether or not to do one with the edge.  If you search the edge on reefcentral there are tons of builds that look amazing!

Truth be told, I'm seriously considering giving salt a try with a 10g tank even though people say its hard to do.  Errol picked up a gorgeous 10g rimless tank for pretty cheap when they did the run to Trois rivière and I think it would look awesome as a reef tank.

[xenon]

You wont need to test salinity every day. Once its set @ 1.026, you just replace the evaporation with RD/DI water.

If you keep it as a fish only tank, its VERY easy to maintain.

If you want to add corals, you will need to dose alkalinity daily but once you know how much your corals consume, its the same amount each day. As they grow and get bigger, the alk demand will increase but its pretty slow.

Simple 80% water changes weekly will maintain everything else.

If you follow those guidelines like I do, you wont have any problems in your Edge.

[dbl_dbl]

The one thing I am often confused by is how hard some people make keeping a saltwater tank out to be. Yes, smaller is harder.

But if you plan to take a few bumps along the way, and you understand that you will have to learn from your mistakes and stay focused, there is nothing overly rocket-sciencey about a tank that size. I say enjoy it and keep reasonable expectations, be patient. Of the many reefs I've had over the last 7 or 8 years, my small ones weren't the problematic ones, it was the tanks where I tried to accomplish too much with too little or too quickly. Good luck dude!

[Reefguy]

   I am fully aware that their will be bumps in he road. I will be ready for anything. I already know to wait and be patient. I know where to do the upgrades to keep a smaller tank. I know what I need as sub strait and how much weight of live rock I need as well.  Just like I know what the salinity lvl must be 1.026. I know that it is a very very slow process but that's the beauty of it am I right. I want to take 6 weeks before introducing a cleaner crew, I want to then wait again till I introduce the live fish. Make sure nothing spikes.

   It just get's very disappointing when all you here in negativity. I understand bigger is better with less work. But the whole fun of keeping fish is keeping everything balanced and alive. I have 5g fresh planted tank that I do water changes on every 4 days. It's not anything new except its a salt water tank.

   As a lot of good peeps have said that I should go on I am thinking of going on with the project. Seeing it come alive before my eye's and just taking step by step. I  know it could turn out great if I just take patience and time and pace myself.

   I understand its a take it nice and slow project with salt water. but after everything is said and done I know it could be beautiful. I will be looking at more info on nano salt tanks. I know the information is scarce.

   Thanks for the vote of confidence from the few.

Pat Reefguy

[Darth]

if you are doing a reef salinty should be 1.026  fish only you can do less 1.025

[sas]

Good for you for deciding to go on with your project .
You sound very passionate about our hobby and I can't wait to see
what you do with your 6g.

[Cheebs]

I say go for it! If you post your pregress in the build thread I'm sure we'd all love to help you along the way. It will be a challenge, but is sounds like that's exactly what you're looking for. Good luck!

[Feivel]

Nano reefs are cool. I didnt mean to push you off salt, quite the oposite. I just wanted to make sure you were aware of the multiple issues. Lots of members have nano's here and could and would love to help you out. Due to the costs of the salt side setup, I just wanted you to setup the perfect tank for what you want. By first figuring out what type of tank you did want (fish only or reef) and then what fish to figure out what size you will need Since your banned to the desk size, then so be it go for it They wife will want you to upgrade shortly enough. you will see

Get a refractometer and a big jug of ro/di water, a 6g wont have much cost, Some members could help you out with the RO/DI water. and some basic test kits, for the W/C, not sure how frequent on a nano, but i do weekly 10%, If you mix a 5g bucket of saltwatwer (~2 cups I/O salt) you would be good for like 8 weeks lol. I do 10g a week

Wich salt should he be using for the nano???  Beginers Instant Ocean? or would you guys recomend more of a pro salt? (higher trace elements)