What plant substrate to use?

[ajm1961]

While I'm in Ohio, I'd like to get some plant substrate.
Here are some options I'm currently debating:
- Flourite (regular)
- Flourite Sand
- Eco Complete
- Fluval Stratum

The tank would house a few angels, some cardinal tetras, a few small plecos and some corydoras. Plants not yet determined, but likely an Amazon sword, and various medium light plants. Looking into a 4 x T5HOs at 54 W setup for a 90 gallon tank for sufficient lighting. Will be adding a CO2 feed as well.

So my question: any preferences from folks here as to what substrate to use? And does anyone do mixes or layers of substrate? And if so, what kind?

[dbl_dbl]

If I had to rank them:

Flourite
Eco-Complete
Flourite Sand
Stratum

[exv152]

ADA aquasoil is available in the US, and it's considered one of the best plant substrates. Next best thing would be netlea, stratum, capped soil, or seachem flourite (not onyx sand though). Root feeders like cypts, swords etc, love the soil based substrates.

[robt18]

Fluorite sand will be the best for your plecos and cories to play in, however I'm not a huge fan of planting in sand. it's heavier than some sands, but still not ideal IMO.

I've had great results with fluorite regular, but the dust issue never seems to go away...

Eco complete I've never had good luck with. I don't know why, but it just doesn't work for me.

Fluval Stratum I've never used myself, but I hear its amazing. Errol can chime in on that one? Maybe I've sold him a dozen bags of it?

[dbl_dbl]

Fluval Stratum I've never used myself, but I hear its amazing. Errol can chime in on that one? Maybe I've sold him a dozen bags of it?

I hope he does, because I've heard some crazy, wildly deviating opinions on the Plant Stratum...some say it's amazing because it has a much higher CEC rating than Flourite, while others claim it breaks down into a dust over time.

[ajm1961]

I was leaning towards the Stratum, simply because it's soil based and would be good for root feeders. But, I find that it is messy to deal with when moving plants around, and it is so light, it is difficult to get plants to stay in place - especially the small forground plants like Glossostigma.
That's why I was wondering if I should be mixing it with another substrate, or adding a layer on top.
Another option I guess would be to do a "dry start" method.

Other opinions? Strategies? Preferences?

[robt18]

If you're a plant mover and don't like mess, you'll want to run flourite through a strainer for about 6 months before using

If I recall correctly, glossostigma roots are really fine and shallow, something like eco complete that has a 2-grade system where the bigger particles go to the top and smaller ones go to the bottom might not work so well... roots may not take properly.

Of course I could be wrong about all of this, I'm no plant expert. But if you see ADA soil and have a pocket full of cash, I would go with that.

[daworldisblack]

I have flourite black capped with flourite sand. I think it worked well enough but with any mixed substrate, overtime, they tend to get all jumbled up - happens if you have fishes that dig, when replanting/uprooting plants etc. For my combo, its not a biggie though and I like the CEC rating.

Maybe you can have a layer of stratum and cap it with something else? As for strategies, someone else tried the DSM method for HC cuba on here. Perhaps they can provide some insight.

[charlie]

My take is just from personal experience with Flourite, red, eco complete & Fluval stratum, all of which did well for me, I presently use the stratum in 2 of my tanks, my 79 has been up over a year now ( i think) & it is still doing well
does the stratum breakdown? - yes, but definitely not as some report it, there is some residual breakdown
Is light & makes planting somewhat difficult yes, outside of those 2  issues, i have great growth with it & will continue to use it before ADA or any other such soil based substrate simple because it`s not as costly as the other big names & does the job for me.
Flourite red i used,worked great, but i went away from it because of the mess of red dust & clay like sludge it created when ever you messed with it & anyone who knows me, will know that is often 
Eco complete also did well, i did not like the fact that it buffered the water hardness & required you to be on top of your water changes to keep the KH in check.
these are my personal experience with the above 3.
I will say however if this is your first journey into a real planted tank i would probably lean to the Flourite black, reason is i have heard that the flourite properties remain & the dust of the red is not an issue.
Regards

[76brian]

i would probably lean to the Flourite black, reason is i have heard that the flourite properties remain & the dust of the red is not an issue.

...but then you'll have the dust of the black

I have "Regular" and "Dark", and they're all dusty and messy at first. I can't see "Black" being any different, and actually I have read it was worse.

[charlie]

...but then you'll have the dust of the black

I have "Regular" and "Dark", and they're all dusty and messy at first. I can't see "Black" being any different, and actually I have read it was worse.

I tend to base my opinion on what i personally use & avoid a lot of what is reported on forums unless it`s someone who has a reputable name or very experienced hobbyist, it`s just the way i approach forums for advice.
That said i recommended the black flourite based on several persons locally who i have spoken to about it that have actually used it, one such person is a member Jeff1192 maybe he can chip in , in the mean time here is his build thread
http://ovas.ca/forum/index.php?topic=46391.0
Regards

[Stussi613]

I've used fluorite black in the past. It is dusty, but once you clean it and put it in the tank it's not bad. Even if you move stuff around it settles pretty quickly. One tip I have for this substrate is to run lots of filter floss when you first setup the tank and then run two layers when established. If you move things around take the bottom layer (which will be pretty dirty after a few days) out and then move the top layer down and put a new layer on top. This way you'll polish out the dust pretty fast.

[robt18]

In the past I've used a two bucket system with a pump and a strainer and some floss to run water over the fluorite constantly for a few days to help rinse it out. Worked pretty well, just keep moving the stuff around and it cleans up eventually. (mostly).

[fischkopp]

We will have a chance for a chat at the extra. I used all substrates on your list except for Stratum, so I won't comment on that other that it looks quite nice in Charlie's tanks.

I don't like the regular Flourite. The gravel is too big, and I don't like red.

Eco is ok, but I wouldn't get it again. More grayish than black. And it used to have some quality issues in the past. Lighter than flourite, but not as light as soil-based substrates. Didn't like the inconsistent size of the gravel; after some time you just end up with big pieces on the surface. I didn't like the initial boost for plants either, it wasn't enough to run the tanks without supplementing nutrient from the starts.

Fluorite black is nice. I prefer the medium version. Very consistent gravel size. It's heavier, which makes it easy to plant in. Got good very results with it. The first months or even years didn't require much thinking about extra nutrients. My most favourite in your list.

Fluorite sand is prone to compaction. Happens quite quickly. Any dirt will show as a layer on the surface, more than on other substrates. Wouldn't recommend it if you are just starting with planted tanks.

Don't mix/layer gravel unless you like how it looks mixed. You will never be able to separate it.

[ajm1961]

About Flourite Black - are the pieces or size of the grain irritating for plecos and corydoras? Wouldn't they prefer a sand type substrate?

[sas]

Flourite black is my favorite but then I've only used the red.
I used a fellow hobbyists way of planting, no rinsing whatsoever, newspaper spread on top of substrate, add water slowly, only add enough water to plant,remove paper, plant, let water clear, then add water slowly to fill tank about 3/4, and run filters with floss added to intakes.
Why pay high prices for substrates and then rinse all the goodies away. Just my opinion .
If you're a plant mover yes it's messy in the beginning but the dirt clouds eventually subside.

[fischkopp]

The plecos wouldn't care too much, but corydoras do prefer sand. My opinion was based on what I would prefer for a planted tank. It's always difficult to get it right for everyone once you go to a community setup.

About Flourite Black - are the pieces or size of the grain irritating for plecos and corydoras? Wouldn't they prefer a sand type substrate?

[exv152]

About Flourite Black - are the pieces or size of the grain irritating for plecos and corydoras? Wouldn't they prefer a sand type substrate?

You could always go with the seachem black onyx sand. I've used it with cories and they love it. Except the nutrient level is not as good as the regular flourite. I never had any issues with compaction.

[charlie]

I really don`t think Black flourite is an issue with cories, but take that with a pinch of salt  .
I have kept sterbai cories with the red flourite & never had any issues with them & the red flourite.
But that`s just me 

[fischkopp]

I really don`t think Black flourite is an issue with cories, but take that with a pinch of salt  .

Dito. Cory prefer sand, meaning, that's what makes them happy, that's were they show their natural behavor. But that doesn't mean that they are completely unhappy with other substrates.