Considering switching my 135g to a cichlid tank

[Stussi613]

Warning, this will be a long post!

So between catching a glimpse of ajm1961's cichlid tank at the last exec meeting, spending part of the weekend at the pet expo looking at Limmer's amazing fish in the display setup and my wife commenting on the episode of Tanked where they built the aquarium into the fridge (she thought that the cichlids they used were WAY nicer than the dwarf Mbuna I used to keep in a 60g) I think I've decided to convert my planted discus tank into a cichlid tank. I've got just about everything I need to switch over, with the exception of rocks, and I'm going to use a lesson I learned with my 60g and just get lace rock from the start since I love the way it looks and I still have a few pieces with some pretty crazy anubias nana and petite attached to them already. 

What I need is some build and stocking advice for this tank from some of you experts!  I've gone into great detail here to give you as much info as possible.

Here's what I've got:

Tank - 135g 72L x 24H x 18D with Starfire front panel. Tank is drilled in the middle and both corners on the bottom, but when I switch over I'm planning to delete all but one of the holes which will remain with a bulkhead and municipal grade shutoff valve for water changes. I think I'll likely go the route of glass discs larger than the holes siliconed in to seal them off, although all of the bulkheads I have can be capped with components from Home Depot so I might just leave them easily accessible in case I ever want to change the tank again.

Filtration - 1 x Rena XP4 and 1 x Rena XP2.  Total of 750gal/hr of flow (340G worth of filtration).  I may decide to get rid of the XP4 and get an XP3 since the XP4 doesn't really fit that great inside the bottom of the stand. I do have 5/8 dishwasher grade hoses on it so the flow is not impeded in any way, but the routing of the hoses is a bit annoying at present.

Stand - 1.5" square steel stand sheathed in melamine. This stand has held this tank for a long time so I'm not worried about it at all. No foam, or anything else under the tank because the bulkheads have tight clearances where they pass through to the bottom, but the whole thing is level and has been running in the current location for 2.5 years with no issues.

Lighting - 72" Tek Light 8 bulb T5 fixture with 4 banks of lights per switch. This is super overkill for this tank, and even for what's in it now, but I got it with the tank and it fits the tank perfectly so I'm going to keep it.

I'll be getting rid of the current fish, driftwood and plants, but keeping my anubias and java fern to re-use in the new scape. The plan is to tear the tank down completely and get a 10-20g tank with a sponge filter to house my planted rocks and various bristle-nose Plecos which will be moved into the new tank when it's back up and running. The temp tank will remain under the stand (and out of site from my wife!) when the main tank is back up and running and can be used as a quarantine tank or fry tank if required.

The plan for the teardown/rebuild is:

1. Empty the tank and remove all current substrate.
2. Thorough cleaning of tank, including PP wash to remove any and all traces of algae.
3. Delete holes in bottom.
4. Put egg crate on the bottom of the tank, then use pool filter sand mixed with a bit of aragonite for substrate.
5. Create two bigger rock piles on either side of the tank and one smaller one towards the middle with lace rock. I think I'd need about 100 pounds of it, but I'm not sure.
6. Transfer seeded rocks, sponge filter and Plecos (3 x 1.5" albino) into main tank and use them to start the seeding of the main filters.  I'll leave the adult 4" regular BN in the tank under the stand with a cave and another sponge filter because I hate his guts and I can use him to keep the quarantine tank cycled.
7. Verify params in the main tank and then start adding my cichlids.

So. If you've read this far.

Am I on the right track and what would you recommend I put in this tank?  I'm looking for really bold colors and lots of activity after having Discus for the last 3 years.  Open to any and all stocking advice, but I don't want a single species tank like Frontosa because I'm looking for lots of color.

[Fishnut]

I have a couple of questions...

1. What kind of substrate do you have already?  Sorry if I just happened to miss that detail.  If you're looking to change it to a substrate that makes the water harder and have a higher PH, There are other ways of doing that with decorative rocks, etc.

2. Why are you considering plugging the holes for the tank?  If this were my tank, I would want to take full advantage of the filtering opportunities presented by a drilled tank and get a large sump filter going for it instead of a couple of canister filters.  I've never kept these cichlids in my tanks but I've cared for enough of the to know that they produce more waste than the average tropical fish.

Sounds like it's going to be a great set-up!!

Do some searches for documentaries from the african lakes to see what these fish live in in their natural habitat.

[robt18]

Looks gooood to me!

Get lots of actinics into your tek light. You'll be amazed at how they light up under different actinic conditions, it makes the lighting system pretty fun to play with.

For stocking, stick to malawi I would say, however if you want you could somewhat mix the two. Ideally, you'll find fish with similar diets, but if you just HAVE to have a few different ones that don't quite work... sometimes it can work out with some middle-ground type of food. Food-sensitive fish like tropheus would be out of the question, but I've kept mbuna, peacocks and haps all together quite successfully.

With most africans, you'll want either about 1-3 M/F, or you'll end up with all males. Half the time I feel like you end up with all males anyway, so that could be one strategy to stock the talk and get lots of colour.... you may (will) (always) end up with aggression in the tank, but with all males they tend to be able to hold their own.

[1macuser]

Hi Stussi613

Sounds like you'll have a real nice set up. I agree with Fishnut...i would take full advantage of what you have.

Here i a good link to a variate of Cichlids with profiles http://freepdfbooks.tripod.com/downloads/cichlids.pdf
There is a huge selection to get with tones of colors. I'm sure you can find something in there.

If you need any Info don't be shy and ask away.    

[Stussi613]

I have a couple of questions...

1. What kind of substrate do you have already?  Sorry if I just happened to miss that detail.  If you're looking to change it to a substrate that makes the water harder and have a higher PH, There are other ways of doing that with decorative rocks, etc.

I have black fluorite in the back of the tank and white pool filter sand in the front" separated by a plastic divider that Rebecca came up with before I got the tank from her.  I've got another full bag of pool filter sand I can use for the setup already, so I'd like to use it if I can.  I'm going to buffer the water as I'm not convinced that substrate alone makes a difference and I'm determined that I only want lace rock for my rock work.

2. Why are you considering plugging the holes for the tank?  If this were my tank, I would want to take full advantage of the filtering opportunities presented by a drilled tank and get a large sump filter going for it instead of a couple of canister filters.  I've never kept these cichlids in my tanks but I've cared for enough of the to know that they produce more waste than the average tropical fish.

The holes were drilled in the bottom corners and from what I've been told if I went back to an overflow system on this tank it would be noisy as hell since there is now way to do a coast-to-coast type overflow setup using the existing holes. I think a sump would great, but in reality I don't think it's feasible.  I'm also pretty sure that 750gal/hr of flow is going to be enough for this tank, but I'm open to other filter suggestions.

Keep the questions coming!

[1macuser]

Pool filter sand work great and makes for easy cleaning...this is what i have in my set up and absolutely love it and so do the fish lol. I had river rocks prior to it. As for buffering the water to get the proper Ph is would suggest Lime stones that you can get at pretty much any landscaping place or if your lucky enough to get your hands on some real Texas Holey rocks, unfortunately no one in town carries any. I got mine from Ebay.

I also have 2 hydor (1050) circulation pumps to increase the water flow and also helps moving debris around for the canister filter to pick up and cuts down on maintenance clean up time.     

[robt18]

Just go with aragonite for the substrate.... makes life super easy and should be plenty for buffering. Test out the pH after a while and I'm almost sure you'll have no pH issues.

I would put a bit more water flow in the tank; the filtration is more than adequate but I always like at least 10x turnover in my tanks... so even one Koralia 1050 would get you well over that. More water movement will also help with your filtration, mostly picking up any particles and bringing them to the intakes.

I don't really see any point in having a sump with africans; the only benefit would be extra water volume. Your canisters will provide plenty of bio filtration (provided you have lots of bio media in them), and cichlids are really low maintenance in terms of additional equipment.

[Stussi613]

Just go with aragonite for the substrate.... makes life super easy and should be plenty for buffering. Test out the pH after a while and I'm almost sure you'll have no pH issues.

I would put a bit more water flow in the tank; the filtration is more than adequate but I always like at least 10x turnover in my tanks... so even one Koralia 1050 would get you well over that. More water movement will also help with your filtration, mostly picking up any particles and bringing them to the intakes.

I don't really see any point in having a sump with africans; the only benefit would be extra water volume. Your canisters will provide plenty of bio filtration (provided you have lots of bio media in them), and cichlids are really low maintenance in terms of additional equipment.

I actually have one from when I had the filters coming through the bottom of the tank for surface agitation, so I'll keep it and add it to the build. Where would you recommend placement?

[robt18]

Anywhere really. Only goal is circulation, no current needed for Africans. If there is little surface breaking going on, then you could use it for that as well.

[Stussi613]

The two filters are over the top now, so lots of surface movement.

[charlie]

Stuart did not take you long to make up your mind  , looking forward to seeing this tank when the transformation is completed.
Errol

[Stussi613]

Stuart did not take you long to make up your mind  , looking forward to seeing this tank when the transformation is completed.
Errol

Well I've been throwing the idea of changing it around for months in my head...but it was only last night when my wife saw that episode of Tanked and said "wow, those cichlids are pretty cool" that I made up my mind

[Stussi613]

I guess I'm committed now, just ordered 100 pounds of lace rock!  Going to try to get the changeover going this weekend, but it might have to wait until the following weekend since I have to go to Toronto for work from Monday to Thursday next week.

Still undecided on fish, but I'm leaning towards haps with yellow labs and acei.

[robt18]

You may be surprised at how little 100 lb of lace rock fills up :p hope it's enough!

Make sure you know what your ugly grey baby haps are going to turn into when they're older! They start off pretty boring but do they ever pop at adulthood

[1macuser]

I have to agree with Robt18 they sure do pop and are very active.
I luv to watch my Sulphurheads the colors are amazing.

[Stussi613]

You may be surprised at how little 100 lb of lace rock fills up :p hope it's enough!

Make sure you know what your ugly grey baby haps are going to turn into when they're older! They start off pretty boring but do they ever pop at adulthood

If you remember my 60g short I built a pretty high rock pile with 50lbs...not going for full coverage from top to bottom on the entire tank, two major piles on each corner and then a smaller one in the middle and lots of open space.  The great thing about lace rock is that it practically sticks to itself so I'm pretty sure I can get the height I'm looking for.

Luckily I got some fantastic pricing ($2/lb) at a local sponsor so if I need another 50lbs I can get it pretty easily and, somewhat, cheap.

[robt18]

Nice. I think I ended up with 80 lb of lava rock which is pretty light stuff in my 55.... 

[Stussi613]

Well, the switchover has begun  

Took all the water out of the tank tonight, got the discus, tetras, Cory's, SAE's and my prized driftwood ( ) picked up by my friend who is going to add them to his Discus tank.  Put all my rocks and filter media into a big Rubbermaid bin with a heater and a sponge filter and then added my 4 juvi albino bushynose and single adult regular bushynose to it to keep the cycle going.  I also soaked my koralia in a sink full of water with a VERY healthy dose of Flourish Excel to try to kill the black beard off it.  I'll be treating the rocks with the annubias with peroxide in the sink over the coming days to try to get rid of the BBA from them before putting them in the new tank.  I'm hoping to maintain the cycle on the filter media in the bin so I'll do them one at a time spaced out over a few days and rinse in de-chlorinated water before putting them back.  

Now I just have to figure out how to get all the substrate out of the tank and keep the damn cats out of the Rubbermaid container!

[exv152]

...
Now I just have to figure out how to get all the substrate out of the tank and keep the damn cats out of the Rubbermaid container!

I just took down a high tech planted tank with aquasoil, and I didn't want to break down the dirt granules, so I filled the tank with a few inches of water, and siphoned the substrate out into buckets. If you remove the big python head and use the hose alone, it sucks everything up easily, then just dump the water and keep the substrate in buckets. My main concern was not scratching the starfire glass.

[Stussi613]

My main concern was not scratching the starfire glass.

I'm in the same boat...