How to go from low tech to high? (First time)

[werehatwere]

So about 3 months ago, I decided that i wanted to upgrade my I guess low tech planted tank to a high tech tank. I really wanted to take my time and do it right, (spend a few months researching, getting to know the equipment, understanding how it works, seeing a few tanks in action ect. )
Ive have gotten a few "lessons" from my neighbour who has a high tech planted tank. He explained how lighting, nutrients and Co2 work together. He told me about T5 lighting, and fertilizing and such.
So there are still a few things that I want under my belt before I do this. Im not really keen on going all willy-nilly buying things and having it blow up in my face.
So the main reason for this topic is to get some ideas and suggestions, because I have a few problems too deal with.

1: My parents are divorced. Although they live in the same neighbourhood, it is not practicle for me to travel back and forth every day to fertilize. I switch on fridays.

2: School. Grade 9 at Ashbury is not easy. School is my main dedication and I dont have a lot of time at night for tons of maintence. I am however completley free on weekends.

3: My parents want to help and love aquariums but there not very educated in aquarium keeping, and it just so happens that both my real parents and step parents are surgeons and they dont want to come home only to worry about giving the right dosage of ferts to the tank or changing water ect.

I know that lighting and Co2 can be all automated and thats great. Can fertilization? (I am fine with doing water changes myself every week.)

So I guess my real questions are
A- Is there a system that is pretty much automatic? That fertilizes itself and stuff on the weeks that I am not there?
B- Any tips/ suggestions that I should know before I do this?
C- Any really helpful links?
D- Dry or liquid ferts? Wich do you recomend?
E- I know that your supposed to densley plant right off the bat. Whats a good place to get large amounts of veryy different plants? (Big als is great but i meant more online so I could order lots and very diverse)

This is the Co2 kit I would get
http://www.aquariumplants.com/COMPLETE_ULTIMATE_Co2_SYSTEM_best_of_the_best_6_p/co2-a1.htm
And I really will basically spend anything for a completley automatic system. (Maybe ill try to keep it below $3000 though 

Any suggestions/ links to automated systems or just tips from your tanks would be great. Ill probably aim to set it up in about 4-6 weeks from now.

Adam

[exv152]

Hi Adam, Be warned high tech is a lot of work. But get yourself some T5HO lights, a good co2 regulator (the one in the link is a bit overkill because you don't need the pH controler etc), a descent sized co2 cylinder (5 to 10 lbs will last a long time) and go with dry ferts (much much cheaper) and you can make your own liquid ferts from that too. Oh yeah, and buy yourself a good pair of scissors, you'll need them to do lots of pruning. I'm sure the various planted tank folks will chime in as well.

[daworldisblack]

Hola Adam! Just to further what Eric mentioned, it is a little more work having a high-light/high-tech set up. What sized tank do you have or are looking to get? Depending, the co2 kit you're looking at could be overkill indeed. You could get much better quality regulators with just a diffuser in your system for much cheaper - you'll have extra dough to play with when it comes to other things. A reactor is helpful for larger tanks however so all depends on how big you're going.

Dry ferts are the way to go and most of us get it from either the hydrophonics store or online. There are 2 major 'schools' of  dosing for high-tech setups to my knowledge: Estimative Index (EI) or Perpetual Preservation System (PPS). Given your schedule, the former might suit you better as you dose once a week heavily ( the idea is to provide as much nutrients as possible in one shot, possibly in excess) and do a major water change once a week as well (reestablishes/resets various nutrient levels). So waterchange and dosing could occur on the same day is what i am saying.

Fertilizing can be automated with dosing pumps. As Eric mentioned, you'd have liquid ferts mixed from your powdered nutrients and you could use dosing pumps to pump that into your system automatically as well. This may not be necessary with EI dosing however.

Plants can be bought from BA's - you get best pick when they are just freshly shipped. Decent enough selection. Not too keen on ordering plants online unless they're the hardier species (moss, java fern, anubias etc.) but most plants dont do too too well with shipping usually so I am dissuaded from going that route. Usually I get trimmings from fellow hobbyists of plants I like ( this is usually how you acquire rarer species that stores dont get) or buy from stores if I see good specimens. If you dont find an online source, my recommendation is to fill it up with fastgrowing plants first. This will prevent algae from taking over. Overtime you can acquire the plants you really want and then start replacing the ones in your tank.

Great planted tank community on here so feel free to ask questions and am sure more of us will chime in!

[werehatwere]

Thanks for the quick replies! 

What sized tank do you have or are looking to get? Depending, the co2 kit you're looking at could be overkill indeed. You could get much better quality regulators with just a diffuser in your system for much cheaper - you'll have extra dough to play with when it comes to other things. A reactor is helpful for larger tanks however so all depends on how big you're going.

I already have a 65 gallon comunity tank that I think will be the recipient of this upgrade 

the idea is to provide as much nutrients as possible in one shot, possibly in excess) and do a major water change once a week as well (reestablishes/resets various nutrient levels). So waterchange and dosing could occur on the same day is what i am saying.

ut wouldnt dosing and changing the water on the same day defeat the purpose? Wouldnt you be putting the ferts in and then essentialy taking them right back out? How would that help the plants for the remaining days of the week?
Thanks a bunch!

the one in the link is a bit overkill because you don't need the pH controler etc

Ya your probably right. Like I said before, all 4 of my parents have very demanding jobs and I need to make absoloutley sure  that the tank is not gonna crash when Im not there cause they will have NO IDEA what to do 
Although my mom could probably pull of a water change 

Also about the lighting, I read in a book that you can often combine different lights for a ggod spectrum for plant growing. What dose this really mean and dose it mean different types of T5HO or different companies?
Adam

[wrm130]

I can offer an alternative suggestion as well as answer your last question in a very simple way.

Combining spectrums is referring to running two different spectrum or colored bulbs to give the plants the benefit of a wider or more focused/useful range.  Ie plants dont use the green spectrum so plant specfic bulbs eliminate this part almost completely.

And I may get thrashed for suggesting this, but how about using dirt for your high light/high tech tank.  It should hopefully eliminate the need for ferts for a good long time.  It's working well for me anyways.

It will also eliminate the need to vacuum so less maintenance if you're not around.

[exv152]

ut wouldnt dosing and changing the water on the same day defeat the purpose? ?

The idea is to first do a wc then add the ferts right after.

Also about the lighting, I read in a book that you can often combine different lights for a ggod spectrum for plant growing. What dose this really mean and dose it mean different types of T5HO or different companies?

Using different wavelengths is what most planted folks use. A full spectrum bulb combined with an aqua flora type bulb will provide all the wavelengths most plants require.

[werehatwere]

The idea is to first do a wc then add the ferts right after.

Well that makes a lot more sense. I also like the idea of a dosing pump. So it basically has a resovoire of whatever your chemical is and it pumps the appropriate amount in per day?
That would be nice. But all I saw from a quick search are $400 3 pump, LED whatsa-whoisits. Is there anything that I can just program to put said amount of ferts in per day? For like $100-150?

[daworldisblack]

Well that makes a lot more sense. I also like the idea of a dosing pump. So it basically has a resovoire of whatever your chemical is and it pumps the appropriate amount in per day?
That would be nice. But all I saw from a quick search are $400 3 pump, LED whatsa-whoisits. Is there anything that I can just program to put said amount of ferts in per day? For like $100-150?

They are expensive Hence a WC and then fert top-up should work great for you with your schedule and budget.

[delslo]

A dirt bottom tank is not advisable for one main reason, there is no way to guarantee what is in the dirt, could be oil could be cat urine, could be.... you get the point. There are too many things out there that could cause a crash, that your parents couldn't deal with, and you need to avoid. Now there are some out there that may say that you can and in their defense it has been done, but it you move one plant and disturb the soil in one spot you may allow water to access something you don't want it hitting. I would recommend using ADA aquasoil. There are a few types I prefered the Amazonia II but that's just me. There is a cycle for a month minimum with the soil so be warned. As far as controllers go the only one in that price range that comes to mind is the reef keeper lite RKL, not my favorite controller but on a budget would do the job. I controls everything, it would allow limitless fert additions, you just would need a bunch of the top off modules. It's not meant for this application, but should work. You could also try having your ferts diluted and have them drip into the tank continuously kind of like a saline bag at the hospital type deal, you would just need to adjust them to the right levels and fill them up periodically. I have never tried this method before, but it is used all the time in reef aquariums for kalkwasser. Best of luck, By the way I'm an ex-planted tank nut now turned reefer.

[sas]

Keep in mind as well the OVAS Giant Auction is coming up in March.
There's usually lots of goodies up for auction to start up a tank and not to mention the wonderful door prizes.

[exv152]

One other note Adam, I went back and read your initial post more carefully and I must say, kudos to you for being brave enough at your age to come onto a site like this and ask questions. When I was your age I was crazy about aquariums but didn't have the resources you have today.

I just wanted to say with regards to dosing ferts that there is, in my opinon, only one method that is better and that's EI. Other methods are not as full proof as EI, because they leave room for deficiencies which can lead to algae and poor growth. Dosing on a daily basis, with a big water change at the end of the week, eliminates the need for test kits and guess work. That's why EI is, in my opinion the best method for any hobbyist, beginer or experienced. Your plants will always have what they need, and in abundance in some cases but it all gets reset at the end of the week. In a tank your size, you'll want to begin by dosing for a smaller tank, and then up it a bit to the 60-80 gal regime:

40-60 Gallon Aquariums
+/- 1/2 tsp KN03 3x a week
+/- 1/8 tsp KH2P04 3x a week
+/- 1/8 (10ml) Trace Elements 3x a week
50% weekly water change

60 – 80 Gallon Aquariums
+/- 3/4 tsp KN03 3x a week
+/- ¼ tsp KH2P04 3x a week
+/- ¼ tsp (20ml) Trace Elements 3x a week
50% weekly water change

[Peekay]

If you don't buy a doser, you could pre-measure each day's dose to make it easy for your parents... all they have to do is empty it into your tank when they feed. 

[werehatwere]

Keep in mind as well the OVAS Giant Auction is coming up in March.

Thanks! I will proably start my tank up a liitle sooner than that just to have time to iron out all the kinks. I plan to fill the tank right off the bat with fast growing and harfy plants. When the auction rolls around, ill see i fI can grab a few more exotic spiecies to replace with.

One other note Adam, I went back and read your initial post more carefully and I must say, kudos to you for being brave enough at your age to come onto a site like this and ask questions. When I was your age I was crazy about aquariums but didn't have the resources you have today.

Hahaha thanks a lot  My mom always told me that she wouldnt have gotten to where she is today if she had sat in class and never asked a question. And when I first asked for an aquarium when I was 6, my dad told me to not be afraid to clairfy. Actually his exact words were "Its okay to ask. Grown ups like it when young people get involved because it means that there are people out there who will continue the hobby, when there own kids stick em`in a retirment home!"

If you don't buy a doser, you could pre-measure each day's dose to make it easy for your parents... all they have to do is empty it into your tank when they feed.

I love my parents and all, but I dont even rely on them to feed my fish. I once asked my mom to feed my fish because I was going on a trip with school and was gonna be away for longer. It turns out that she dumped the whole container into the tank, because she thought they looked "Mall nurished" 
Since then, Ive been using automatic feeders 

[werehatwere]

So I did some resaerch online and was wondering if its better to a kind of DIY light fixture with the refelctive stuff or if I bought some ggod lights from big als, would that work?
Baically I want some strong lighting. Enough to grow even the most light demanding plants.
So to sum it up, can someone recomend a good bulb mix and how long each bulb should be on? Ive been reading stuff about like a 1 hour 'burst' in the middle of the day...Is this nescary?

Adam

[exv152]

This is what I use, but really any fixture that holds T5HO bulbs, and not T5NO bulbs, there is a difference...
http://raysaquarium.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_28&products_id=55

And I'd recommend these two types of bulbs as a combo...
http://raysaquarium.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_2&products_id=146

http://raysaquarium.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_2&products_id=149

[werehatwere]

This is what I use, but really any fixture that holds T5HO bulbs, and not T5NO bulbs, there is a difference...
http://raysaquarium.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_28&products_id=55

So could I get a fixture like that at BA's? (seems kinda risky ordering it from oflline...may be damaged in shipping  )

And I'd recommend these two types of bulbs as a combo...
http://raysaquarium.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_2&products_id=146

http://raysaquarium.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_2&products_id=149

So what combonation of those 2 types of bulbs do you use, and when do you have them on? Do you do the "burst" thing with one of them?

And just out of curiosity, wouldnt that thing use a TON of electricity?

[exv152]

So could I get a fixture like that at BA's? (seems kinda risky ordering it from oflline...may be damaged in shipping  )

That website is a local sponsor of this forum, so you call him directly, or BAs also sells other fixtures that are HO fixtures. Which would work too.

So what combonation of those 2 types of bulbs do you use, and when do you have them on? Do you do the "burst" thing with one of them?
And just out of curiosity, wouldnt that thing use a TON of electricity?

I use one of each type of bulb. As for electicity, it\s not too bad actually because any T5 fluorescent fixture is more efficient than T8s, T12s or even MH, metal hallides. Those are probably the least efficient.

[werehatwere]

That website is a local sponsor of this forum, so you call him directly, or BAs also sells other fixtures that are HO fixtures. Which would work too.

Oh well thats handy!
Just for future reference for anyone else reading this, this site is great for understanding lighting
http://www.aquarium-lighting-guide.com/T5-HO-fluorescent

40-60 Gallon Aquariums
+/- 1/2 tsp KN03 3x a week
+/- 1/8 tsp KH2P04 3x a week
+/- 1/8 (10ml) Trace Elements 3x a week
50% weekly water change

60 – 80 Gallon Aquariums
+/- 3/4 tsp KN03 3x a week
+/- ¼ tsp KH2P04 3x a week
+/- ¼ tsp (20ml) Trace Elements 3x a week
50% weekly water change
Posted on: Today at 08:29:30 AM Posted by: sas

So back to the ferts, I think i am going to go with the EI method. It seems a meathod that I can handle. So in this recipie it says 3x a week. For EI dosing, would I create the liquid fertilizer and dose with all of these at once? Any tips or tricks that you have found with this method?

[exv152]

So back to the ferts, I think i am going to go with the EI method. It seems a meathod that I can handle. So in this recipie it says 3x a week. For EI dosing, would I create the liquid fertilizer and dose with all of these at once? Any tips or tricks that you have found with this method?

The EI method is a dry fert method. This is why it mentions tps (for teaspoons). You'll need some measuring spoons and just add them directly into the tank or mix them with some tank water. But don't dose KH2PO4 on the same days you dose Fe (iron) or trace mix. Rex does a real good job of explaining dry dosing on his website, and learning how to make your own liquid ferts from the dry. http://www.rexgrigg.com/dosing.htm

[werehatwere]

The EI method is a dry fert method. This is why it mentions tps (for teaspoons). You'll need some measuring spoons and just add them directly into the tank or mix them with some tank water. But don't dose KH2PO4 on the same days you dose Fe (iron) or trace mix. Rex does a real good job of explaining dry dosing on his website, and learning how to make your own liquid ferts from the dry. http://www.rexgrigg.com/dosing.htm

So is there any rules of thumb when dosing? I plan to follow that guide you gave me for a rough idea.