No action in saltwater ?? And classifieds

[Tomtopping]

In regards to selling equipment on the classifieds, I think that most of the salt people here are all set up and probably not looking to get anyone's used stuff.  Most people just starting up don't even know about OVAS and the forum until after they have most of their equipment too.  There are some exceptions, of course...

So ya... Trying to sell items here will be slow because there's not a huge number of people actively looking for things.  It's certainly nice to give people on the forum first shot at things, but if you want to hit more people with your ads, you are better off on Kijiji for a quicker sale...

When I'm trying to sell something in a hurry, I take into account the fact that what I'm selling is USED.  USED items should not be priced the same as new - no matter how little use it actually had.  I tend to price things at 50% of what I paid, knowing that I'm going to take a loss - but at least it will have sold.

Selling frags and fish, I'd imagine that if prices were set a little lower in the classifieds, people might be more inclined to jump on it.  $40 for a Bubble tip anemone is what I'd pay at a store, so I'd expect a little break buying direct from someone on the classifieds.

I look at the classifieds daily, but I haven't seen anything worth pursuing... The few things I did see ended up sold quickly.

I'm new to this board my brother told me about this forum. I'm just getting into salt water i found this site  because of the classifieds there were many things on here i was interested in purchasing  so i registered and it took 2 weeks to get approved for the forum i kinda lost hope and bought all my stuff new  and off kijiji that's just my 2 cents

[veron]

 Yeh it would be hard to tell a store owner not to post in the general forums but alot of times store owners
get caught up in threads and/or start shilling there product.
I've been on REEF CENTRAL for years and years and most good well known sponsors do not post unless
its on there paid forum to help customers. Chances are as a store owner you'll know allot about reefing already
so what questions can you ask of the hobby? Just my thoughts.

As to the ''RECENT POSTS''  section I think no sponsors should be able to advertise/post there. I find it annoying
as it all stores all the time. I think everyone should have a smaller colorful banner on the front page like
RAY has. 1 click and your at the stores site.

[Stussi613]

Chances are as a store owner you'll know allot about reefing already
so what questions can you ask of the hobby? Just my thoughts.

Most of the posts by Az, and other sponsors, in the main forum are helping people with the knowledge they have about fish and corals...I wouldn't want to see this stop in any way.

Stuart

[fish]

Yeh it would be hard to tell a store owner not to post in the general forums but alot of times store owners
get caught up in threads and/or start shilling there product.
I've been on REEF CENTRAL for years and years and most good well known sponsors do not post unless
its on there paid forum to help customers. Chances are as a store owner you'll know allot about reefing already
so what questions can you ask of the hobby? Just my thoughts.

As to the ''RECENT POSTS''  section I think no sponsors should be able to advertise/post there. I find it annoying
as it all stores all the time. I think everyone should have a smaller colorful banner on the front page like
RAY has. 1 click and your at the stores site.

I know Jeremy from Premium Aquatics for one has been hugely helpful in quite a few of the big threads on RC (e.g. Bubble King Owners). On the saltwater side, there are so few experienced reefers contributing or even around. Take away help from the sponsors and what do you have left? The forums are near dead - how else is somebody new going to get any help. That's part of the problem for me. All we ever see are newbie posts. What are those of use who have been at it for a while going to learn if our peers just don't care...

[fish]

BTW I only have 57 posts (most of them on this thread:-) and I've been around since 2006 - I just checked - so I guess I have never really been engaged. Truthfully I spend my time on RC but I would like a local forum to feel a part of.

[charlie]

BTW I only have 57 posts (most of them on this thread:-) and I've been around since 2006 - I just checked - so I guess I have never really been engaged. Truthfully I spend my time on RC but I would like a local forum to feel a part of.

aAs you pointed out you have been around since 2006 & most of your 57 post are in this thread, can you enlighten us what has precluded you from making other post to help others in the last 7 yrs & what makes you feel  like you are not part of?
These questions just came to me as i read your statement & is not intended to be confrontional & comes from me as another member of the club & not in the capacity of President.
Regards

[Darth]

I know Jeremy from Premium Aquatics for one has been hugely helpful in quite a few of the big threads on RC (e.g. Bubble King Owners). On the saltwater side, there are so few experienced reefers contributing or even around. Take away help from the sponsors and what do you have left? The forums are near dead - how else is somebody new going to get any help. That's part of the problem for me. All we ever see are newbie posts. What are those of use who have been at it for a while going to learn if our peers just don't care...

I don't think this is a fair statement at all, I have seen tons of seasoned fish keepers here post, and anytime someone new asks any questions they are bombared with advice within a short amount of time. There are a few of us who are very active on the forum. Your statement about being only newbie posts, yet you who have admitted being around since 2006 yet have so few posts, so that would say tha you fall into the catergory of which you have called out.

What would you suggest the others should post about?
and in regards to the sponsors posting I get what people are saying. Sponsors should post whatever to promote their shops, but instead of creating a new topic for every species they get in, they should reply to the orignal post. I agree Az, ray and such have always helped with questions and advice and should not be limited, but for instance what Az does, he posts specials, and instead of starting a new topic titled "more specials' He replies to his orginal thread, leaving the "new post section " fairly cleaned up

I think maybe this thread should have a rule, if you can post what's wrong, then please have an opinion on what to do better, it may change the focus back on topic again

[Greatwhite]

I think maybe this thread should have a rule, if you can post what's wrong, then please have an opinion on what to do better, it may change the focus back on topic again

I'm sure that I've suggested this too... If you have a problem, it's fine to draw attention to it - but it REALLY helps if you have a possible solution to the problem too.

[Darth]

I'm new to this board my brother told me about this forum. I'm just getting into salt water i found this site  because of the classifieds there were many things on here i was interested in purchasing  so i registered and it took 2 weeks to get approved for the forum i kinda lost hope and bought all my stuff new  and off kijiji that's just my 2 cents

Yes that's a long time to become registered, perhaps they can put in what most other forums, send you out an email as soon as you register, you reply to the email, so the system knows you actually did want to join, and then bam its done. no more waiting for a physical person to approve it

[Hookup]

I know Jeremy from Premium Aquatics for one has been hugely helpful in quite a few of the big threads on RC (e.g. Bubble King Owners). On the saltwater side, there are so few experienced reefers contributing or even around. Take away help from the sponsors and what do you have left? The forums are near dead - how else is somebody new going to get any help. That's part of the problem for me. All we ever see are newbie posts. What are those of use who have been at it for a while going to learn if our peers just don't care...

This is a common trend.  When the forum loses its sense of community, the "older members" often move on.  I think it's too bad.  Alternately, Most of the longest running forum members are also very active in the club events.  Most of the uber-active threads are about making the forum something different.   I think there are parallels here.

[ajm1961]

Yes that's a long time to become registered, perhaps they can put in what most other forums, send you out an email as soon as you register, you reply to the email, so the system knows you actually did want to join, and then bam its done. no more waiting for a physical person to approve it

This is not the typical wait for registration to the forum - it's fairly quick normally. This is the first time I've heard a complaint about it. I know our webmaster was away on holiday during that period so somehow it got missed.
As far as "automatic" registration is concerned, I don't see it happening given that some people who were banned from the site continue to attempt registration under different names or email addresses. Some type of vetting from a live person is required (unless we can program a series of rules to do that - I doubt our current server software is capable of that).

[Darth]

as far as banned members go. you block the ip, I am sure there is softwre that can do this, we just hear a lot of how backed up the webmaster is, and perhaps something like this while it may be a pita to implement, can long term reduce some of the load

[ajm1961]

You may be right - but I know of one instance where more than one legitimate forum member shared the same IP (work location?) - that was creating some confusion.

[charlie]

Guys , i`ve followed this thread from it`s inception & see a lot of good suggestions. As a long time club ( before becoming a part of it`s free on line community ( ovas.ca), i have to wonder if the CLUB continues it`s demise  in financial membership,as was evident last year  what will happen to it`s on line community?It might just be time to close the club of 59 yrs & have a full fledged stand alone web club .
Regards Charlie

[fish]

aAs you pointed out you have been around since 2006 & most of your 57 post are in this thread, can you enlighten us what has precluded you from making other post to help others in the last 7 yrs & what makes you feel  like you are not part of?
These questions just came to me as i read your statement & is not intended to be confrontional & comes from me as another member of the club & not in the capacity of President.
Regards

No sense of confrontation perceived. I am not one of the angry people, nor do I care to post in classifieds. I am just a hobbyist that would like to live in a city where we have a thriving reef community that comes together like every other city in the world. I am genuinely perplexed why Ottawa cannot do what the rest of the world can.

I joined here early on in my foray into reefkeeping probably because of a referral - I really don't remember why. There wasn't alot going on then and at some point along the way I found Ivan and Aquaria Canada. It had a sense of community and was hopping. I moved there and was quite active. Life came along and I got too busy for a while so I checked out for a bit. When I came back I learned everybody had moved here so I came back here. There was a pretty good group here but it died shortly after I came back. Around that time RC improved their infrastructure and so I went there and am fairly active both in learning and in trying to help others. I have also purchased some nice gear from their classified forum. Whether the exec of this forum cares to hear it or not commerce drives traffic. That is just a fact and has been for thousands of years.

I have kept an eye on this site through time in hopes of it picking up and when I saw this thread looking like people were trying to fix it I started to pay attention. I did try to offer some perspective but was flamed by your rather aptly named treasurer despite my prefacing and closing my post with respectfully. I saw others try to do the same with similar results. I would offer a suggestion about that but I am pretty sure that would cause a small war and likely see me banned.

I don't want a forum tailored to me, I just want the forums to succeed. There is an anger and a bitterness here that I haven't paid enough attention to really understand but I do know I don't care for. There is one individual who has, I have learned, caused a fair bit of trouble here and perhaps resulted in forum policies that dissuade a thriving community. Certainly and as is evident from this thread there is a real us and them vibe to this place. I hear stories about edited posts and monitored pm. I can't believe that's true but to have people talking this way cannot be helping the cause. I heard another rumour that the exec was lawyering up to defend itself from member attacks at Canoac. If there is any basis to any of these rumors you have to wonder how things got so horribly out of control.

I think hookup captured the sentiment pretty well in his post. I am not engaged because there is nothing going on here of interest to me. I am not in this to wait to answer newbie questions alone. I am looking for stimulating conversation and to learn as well. Answering newbie questions is a byproduct.

Nature abhors a vacuum and there are fragmented forums popping up all over.
One regional Facebook based group has helped me to understand a bit of the odd history of this forum although they delight in bashing ovas too much for my taste. That said, members are posting alot of interesting information all the time and I benefit from it. Yesterday I learned that I have small bristle stars and that I should be happy about it. I haven't learned anything here in a long time.  

Another forum based one is largely unmoderated, has on open classified policy and is starting to show some promise. People are behaving well all on their own so far. I have also had the privilege of joining a smaller Facebook group with some pretty seasoned reefers. Their motto is just the hobby without the drama. I point this out because it has been suggested traffic is slow because people are leaving the hobby. This may be part of the issue but these forums and Facebook pages are tell me that alot of people are not leaving the hobby. They are just leaving Ovas and it seems the politics and drama are big part of the reason why. There is alot more activity on any one of these other groups than there is here. Membership on the forum based group is up 50% in the last two weeks alone.

To those who suggest I try to offer suggestions when pointing out shortcomings - what can I offer that hasn't already been suggested before other than if these suggestions aren't taken seriously I can't see the Ovas forum portion of the club surviving. My participation in this forum is now pretty much limited to checking the vendor forums weekly. I don't think it will be long before your most active sponsors come to the realization that their reach is declining and start marketing to the other groups. Sadly when that happens I doubt I'll come back at all. I think I am fairly representative of the average experienced reefer in this city with the difference being that I am still here and taking the time to try to communicate.

Charlie, I tried to write this as one member to another and I do not intend it as a criticism or as confrontational so please don't take it as such. I hear only good things about you and the many of the other volunteers trying to make this work and appreciate the work you do out of the goodness of your heart.

[fish]

I don't think this is a fair statement at all, I have seen tons of seasoned fish keepers here post, and anytime someone new asks any questions they are bombared with advice within a short amount of time. There are a few of us who are very active on the forum. Your statement about being only newbie posts, yet you who have admitted being around since 2006 yet have so few posts, so that would say tha you fall into the catergory of which you have called out.

What would you suggest the others should post about?

Maybe so. I've tried a few times though. I was keen about the show off your tank sticky. Went nowhere. Asked a question about kalk reactors. Nobody watching has been around long enough to know what I was talking about. Posted a while back when I saw where you could by dow flake for people who might be interested in dosing 2 part on a budget.

There are a few of you that are active but I don't think you can consider 6 new topics in a month as active. What would I have experienced reefers discuss on this forum? Good question. There's hardly anyone listening so that's hard to answer. Try checking out an active forum to see the diversity of ideas, information and misinformation that flies around.

[Hookup]

Hey Fish,   Very well said. 

And FYI most of the vendors are now starting to post on the other forum as well given the huge uptake in salty traffic in the past months on that other site/forum.

OVAS simply hasn't been a forum based club or wanted to be despite at least 2 dozen threads just like this in the past 3+ years that i've been on the site. 

Now there are about 3 or 4 ottawa-based forums / facebook pages that have started up within the past year.


Does this mean that OVAS is dead/dying? 

I cannot see that at all.  This forum is still active, and without question the events are still happening...


There have always been many alternate sites/forums.  Fish you have been active on others you listed, and many other OVAS'rs are the same i'm sure.



What still gets me scratching my head is people who are trying to make a form/club/site/facebook-page something it is not.  With so many choices, ReefCentral, AquaCentral, Facebook, OAVS, everyone should be able to get everything they are looking for without drama.


The question I have is "why are you trying to change OVAS?".   

[fish]

What still gets me scratching my head is people who are trying to make a form/club/site/facebook-page something it is not.  With so many choices, ReefCentral, AquaCentral, Facebook, OAVS, everyone should be able to get everything they are looking for without drama.


The question I have is "why are you trying to change OVAS?".   

Hi Hookup,

If that's aimed at me - I'm not trying to change OVAS. I am trying in my own strange way to help increase participation in the forum component. I totally get what I need from RC and AquaCentral looks like it has real potential to become the local saltwater forum but I suspect that a good part of it will come at the expense of the saltwater community here at Ovas. Fragmentation...

BTW just noticed my post counter is stuck so I guess I have posted more than 57 times:-)

[Hookup]

Not aimed at you Fish, or any specific person.  Just a question to the thread. 

OVAS will not suffer from a few other forums, IMO... It's a very long running club with deep roots (haha planted pun) and will be around for a long time to come im sure.

My question I'd, with all other options out there, why do people feel they need ovas to be something it is not?   I guess it's a bit rhetorical.  It's probably more to do with human nature than anything else.

[Stussi613]

Those are some great points Fish, thanks for sharing them.

I wanted to touch on a couple of items. 

The first is that any post that is edited, or deleted, is accompanied by a PM to the user from the moderator that actioned it with an explanation of why it was moderated. There were issues, in the past, where things were just edited and deleted, but that doesn't happen anymore. Only clear cut violations of the forum rules result in edited/deleted posts.

The second is in regards to PM's, and the ability of the exec to read them.  The only person who can access PM's is the webmaster and the only time they would do that is in the case of a request from a police organization in relation to criminal activity.  I'm not sure where it started, but some people seem to be genuinely concerned that we can just go in and read PM's in our spare time, this is NOT the case at all.

Finally, we can't implement a "reply to this email so we know you're a real person" and you get instant access to the forum policy.  The person mentioned by you above has successfully created several new accounts, and many more unsuccessfully, in the last 2 months under a variety of IP addresses and if we used an auto system he'd be back on here every 3 hours.