No action in saltwater ?? And classifieds

[Darth]

Our sponsors actually do a great job of promoting OVAS, we've asked about putting signs up, but wall space can be hard to get at corporate stores. Most of our sponsors have our newsletter, and Az actually bought and gave away 5 memberships this season.

We actually give out prizes at every meeting. You don't have to be a member to attend your first few meetings, this year some of the non members have won some pretty great prizes...like a Fluval CO2 system.

I like the idea of the gift cards, but I think it could be difficult for the sponsors to administer.  We have to be cognizant that their primary goal is to service customers and not promote OVAS. I could be wrong, but that's my initial impression.

I'm glad I left this thread open and we're getting some constructive suggestions.  We genuinely want to hear from the people that use this club, members and non-members alike. 

I was one of the people that were given a membership, so as not to slap anyone in the face and seem ungrateful I am trying =) I know sponsors do a lot for the club, but it seems that they are our best resource for getting to people, we can also put up "ads" on usedottawa, get some info about the club and put it up, I have seen the giant auction ads on there before, but maybe something titled "new to the aquarium life" something to tell everyone what this place is about, I get you guys have prizes at the meetings, but if others that don't know about ovas don't know about the meetings, then its kind of lost. I know counterspace and wall space in retail is very valuable but I would like to see others inputs, greatwhite had suggested some things, I have also mentioned a membership for forum only so a tiered membership, as I stated the store I shop in does not offer a discount (but the sales are always great) and I do not have time to go meetings as my personal life does not permit (plus my night vision is bad so I prefer not to drive at night) but so far and I know its early in the day, but only myself and one other person have attempted at suggestions, we need to get past opening up the classifieds, as this has been a constant battle, that always ends up the same way (maybe there is something to be said about that ) but at least for now it's not going to happen. I know it is a sore spot for many, but we need to think of the classifieds as non-existent for the time being, and figure out ways to bring  the awareness to ovas. I don't know what the budget is like if there is any money at all for "advertising" but maybe get some Pamphlets printed with info on the club. I  believe if they have this, perhaps Petsmart can have them in the fish dept explain its a non-profit org and you just want to leave handouts, talk to the manager there, I know when I used to be petcare manager in emerald plaza I would tell people about the site, if I had a handout outlining what the is  club is it would have been better. These big corp stores leave a lot of empowerment to the gen management team for things like this. We are not taking business away, if anything it can help grow their business as well. Someone that is more educated in the aquarium hobby will have more long term success, and in turn can turn into thousands of dollars over a lifetime for a store, so there is def a symbiotic relationship we can share. So Please everyone can we TRY and put this classified issue aside, and perhaps come together and see what we can do otherwise? I mean look at it this way, a lot of us assume its the closing of the classifieds that have caused lack of flow to here right, well lets exhaust all other opportunities, and if nothing has changed then we have solid statistics that closing the classifieds was the reason. Right now there are too many other variables involved, and we get back the same results that membership has risen, so maybe the classifieds have nothing to do with it, but obviously, we all have a lot of passion for this site, so lets take all that energy good and bad, and focus it on ways  to do something different again keeping in mind the classified debate is a dead horse, so lets find life somewhere else, I know there are a lot of creative minds out there so lets get cracking and get this club spawning again!!

[Darth]

As for ideas to promote the club, does OVAS sponsor a tank anywhere in a public place?

I was thinking if we rounded up enough equipment to donate a nice setup to say, CHEO, for example... or some other place that would get a lot of attention from kids and families, it would draw interest in the hobby and good exposure for the club.

Members would have to volunteer to maintain it of course, but I'm pretty sure there's no lack of love for aquatics around here.

There could be a nice plaque or something beside it:

"Donated and Maintained by the Ottawa Valley Aquarium Society
www.ovas.ca"

I've never seen mention of it on here, but it seems like an obvious way to promote the hobby and the club.

that's an awesome idea !! Nice

[bergenm]

I am really not sure why we are looking at ways to promote the club, when new visitors are just being greeted with this mess...

We have new members quitting, old members quitting, people getting modded all over the place, threads frozen, the execs and the bulk of the members have completely different visions of what the club should be, and no one can agree if the club drives the forum, the forum drives the club, or they are both equal...

Definitely not what I look for when looking to join a new club... Seriously thinking about getting out of this one...

[Stussi613]

As for ideas to promote the club, does OVAS sponsor a tank anywhere in a public place?

I was thinking if we rounded up enough equipment to donate a nice setup to say, CHEO, for example... or some other place that would get a lot of attention from kids and families, it would draw interest in the hobby and good exposure for the club.

Members would have to volunteer to maintain it of course, but I'm pretty sure there's no lack of love for aquatics around here.

There could be a nice plaque or something beside it:

"Donated and Maintained by the Ottawa Valley Aquarium Society
www.ovas.ca"

I've never seen mention of it on here, but it seems like an obvious way to promote the hobby and the club.

The exec has talked about this, but its never gotten to the point where we can launch it. If we have enough interest on here for volunteers to support it we can certainly look at implementing it.

Stuart

[Darth]

I am really not sure why we are looking at ways to promote the club, when new visitors are just being greeted with this mess...

We have new members quitting, old members quitting, people getting modded all over the place, threads frozen, the execs and the bulk of the members have completely different visions of what the club should be, and no one can agree if the club drives the forum, the forum drives the club, or they are both equal...

Definitely not what I look for when looking to join a new club... Seriously thinking about getting out of this one...

perhaps this is a good way to come together if the members and the execs collaborate on this, creating more unity amongst everyone perhaps everything else can fall into place, if we can get  past all the negativity, as I stated earlier and focus on a common goal. End of the day we all want the same thing, we want a strong club, do we agree on how it has been run? No, but perhaps this is a step in the right direction by including ourselves and showing that we want to have change, not demanding it, perhaps the honey approach is better, because we all know the vinegar route has been bitter for all

[Stussi613]

Darth,

I'm nominating you for post of the year for that one, you hit the nail right on the head and drove it home.  We do have an advertising budget, this year some of it it was spent attending the Ottawa Pet Expo, but there is always room to implement new ideas that make sense. We do have pamphlets at some of the stores and I'll look into adding them to the rest.

Bergenm,

Couldn't agree with you more.

On a slightly different topic, what do people think of using the OVAS Facebook page as a method for people who aren't members to post looking for, free and for sale ads?  The classifieds on OVAS will remain status quo, but the Facebook page has almost as many likes as OVAS has active users and its in a format that people are used to using.  We can also post sponsors sales and specials and links to their pages on there, as well as interesting information.  I'm not saying its going to happen immediately, and there are some people who don't use Facebook, but the majority of people do use it and it might solve some of the issues people have with the forums being closed to non-members.

[bergenm]

This battle has been going on for years, and in my opinion, will continue to do so until there are some fundamental changes with how the club is run. We can collaborate all we want, and it may help in the short term, but these issues will keep returning year after year...

[charlie]

As for ideas to promote the club, does OVAS sponsor a tank anywhere in a public place?

I was thinking if we rounded up enough equipment to donate a nice setup to say, CHEO, for example... or some other place that would get a lot of attention from kids and families, it would draw interest in the hobby and good exposure for the club.

Members would have to volunteer to maintain it of course, but I'm pretty sure there's no lack of love for aquatics around here.

There could be a nice plaque or something beside it:

"Donated and Maintained by the Ottawa Valley Aquarium Society
www.ovas.ca"

I've never seen mention of it on here, but it seems like an obvious way to promote the hobby and the club.

I support that idea 100%, the club has donated 3 tanks to different schools in the recent pass, we went & set them up etc , everyone of them had a thread on the forum( i just can`t find them now.)
The club bought a tank for a sick gentleman whose tank was accidentally broken & i delivered it personally although i was not in any capacity of the club other than a member.
The promoted the acquisition of tanks etc for a special needs school after reading a thread where a member posted what his project was, again all of these efforts were on the forum.
We recently had a discussion of doing a tank @ the Pearly Rideau home, unfortunately the home could not accommodate a tank in the residence.
These are a few that i can recall - can we do more -most certainly, but with very limited  volunteers it`s difficult.
I can tell you that the club reached out several times over to do promotions at various locations but was declined due corporate  stores policy, including those that are named in Darth`s thread, Petsmart`s policy does not allow it, but they allow the grey hound club to do drives, even the old Super Pet was approached several times but was declined, the club has always tried, but it`s not as easy as we think.
Pamphlets , news bulletin was this year set up at local sponsors store that allowed us to do so.
I hope that this not get interpreted as excuses, but we do try with what manpower we have , Time for the few volunteers is scarce after dealing with their personal life & the little they have  left is poured into try & run this club,BTW i want to thank all who do & have volunteered at OVAS, it`s through your appreciated efforts & the support of it#s members that OVAS will be celebrating it`s 60 Th anniversary in 2014..
The vlounteers we get easily are the on line volunteers, we actually need more volunteers away from the cyber world to be able to do more.
Regards

[ajm1961]

This battle has been going on for years, and in my opinion, will continue to do so until there are some fundamental changes with how the club is run.

What kind of fundamental changes do you think would help?
Seriously - I'm not asking this rhetorically.
I want this club to succeed as well.

[charlie]

Here is another tid bit - when the previous webmaster re opened the classifeds there was an honour system of non members donating  to the club - guess how much donations the club got?

[Hookup]

I support that idea 100%, the club has donated 3 tanks to different schools in the recent pass, we went & set them up etc , everyone of them had a thread on the forum( i just can`t find them now.)
The club bought a tank for a sick gentleman whose tank was accidentally broken & i delivered it personally although i was not in any capacity of the club other than a member.
The promoted the acquisition of tanks etc for a special needs school after reading a thread where a member posted what his project was, again all of these efforts were on the forum.
We recently had a discussion of doing a tank @ the Pearly Rideau home, unfortunately the home could not accommodate a tank in the residence.
These are a few that i can recall - can we do more -most certainly, but with very limited  volunteers it`s difficult.
I can tell you that the club reached out several times over to do promotions at various locations but was declined due corporate  stores policy, including those that are named in Darth`s thread, Petsmart`s policy does not allow it, but they allow the grey hound club to do drives, even the old Super Pet was approached several times but was declined, the club has always tried, but it`s not as easy as we think.
Pamphlets , news bulletin was this year set up at local sponsors store that allowed us to do so.
I hope that this not get interpreted as excuses, but we do try with what manpower we have , Time for the few volunteers is scarce after dealing with their personal life & the little they have  left is poured into try & run this club,BTW i want to thank all who do & have volunteered at OVAS, it`s through your appreciated efforts & the support of it#s members that OVAS will be celebrating it`s 60 Th anniversary in 2014..
The vlounteers we get easily are the on line volunteers, we actually need more volunteers away from the cyber world to be able to do more.
Regards

The exec has talked about this, but its never gotten to the point where we can launch it. If we have enough interest on here for volunteers to support it we can certainly look at implementing it.

Stuart

This was done by two members for Rogers House.  They asked for OVAS support, for both donated equipment and hours/help to maintain the system.  Unfortunately, at that time not much happened at all.   The two members, took it on them selves to get cleared for Rogers house, setup what they had and buy/give the rest to the tank. 

It ran well for a few years that way. 

Maybe Rogers House needs help again?

[bergenm]

What kind of fundamental changes do you think would help?

PM sent.

[Feivel]

Good effort guys and keeping it civil and comming to terms with this discussion/thread  
Some good ideas are there, i also have always wondered/asked why sponsors (and i believe i have stated this in previous posts over time) do not advertise for OVAS, even a "I sponsor OVAS" with a LOGO in a plastic sleeve protector taped to the front door, I once won a koralia 1250 from Ray (Thanks again)at a meeting, And I like the free giveaways,  I offer some free frags to new or upcoming reefers, on behalf of the salty side, as a donation to the club to help out promotions.

[Sue]

From what I've seen of OVAS membership numbers and  the big conference they are putting on this year, the club is doing fantastic!  Maybe they could have a short saltwater workshop (like how to make frags?) at one of the sponsors tables in the manufacturers room at Aquamania.

As an idea for future years, and people with more computer skills than I have...I liked Az's  idea of  limited  'free' posts to the classifieds.  I would suggest making the same rule for both members and non members so neither side feels singled out, and allowing only 8-10 posts a year period. If someone needs to buy/sell/or lookfor/ more than once a month ...there could be profit motives, and there are lots of other on-line places to do that. Maybe something like a on-line bulletin board where an ovas computer sends them the  approval to post  a generic form ahead of time, so they can keep track of how many have been sent. 

[Greatwhite]

As an idea for future years, and people with more computer skills than I have...I liked Az's  idea of  limited  'free' posts to the classifieds.  I would suggest making the same rule for both members and non members so neither side feels singled out, and allowing only 8-10 posts a year period. If someone needs to buy/sell/or lookfor/ more than once a month ...there could be profit motives, and there are lots of other on-line places to do that. Maybe something like a on-line bulletin board where an ovas computer sends them the  approval to post  a generic form ahead of time, so they can keep track of how many have been sent. 

There are members (and non members) who have little frag farms running.  They use the classifieds legitimately to offer these frags to other users. I have seen frags offered this way that are just not available from fish shops - ever.  It's a great way to spread the enjoyment of a nice salt tank. - and yes, there is always a profit motive when selling things.

Az's suggestion is completely valid as it is... Non members who want to get into the fragging business can pay the fee for full classifieds access if their "business" kicks off.

If we were to restrict to 8-10 posts per year, some people would not be able to post anymore after mid-january...

[Fishnut]

There are those who were using  OVAS as their own personal marketing venue and not even willing to pay $20 towards the club in support.  If you sell hundreds in frags over the course of a year, buying a $20 would be a nice way to say thanks to an organization for providing the medium for you to sell so much.  OVAS was exploited.

So how can OVAS tell the difference between someone who does this as a hobby and wants to share and someone who is more than just a simply hobbyist?  What should OVAS tell it's members (who's money it is that pays for this website) that they are helping pay for something that others get for free and are exploiting?

[bergenm]

There are those who were using  OVAS as their own personal marketing venue and not even willing to pay $20 towards the club in support.  If you sell hundreds in frags over the course of a year, buying a $20 would be a nice way to say thanks to an organization for providing the medium for you to sell so much.  OVAS was exploited.

So how can OVAS tell the difference between someone who does this as a hobby and wants to share and someone who is more than just a simply hobbyist?  What should OVAS tell it's members (who's money it is that pays for this website) that they are helping pay for something that others get for free and are exploiting?

I'm guessing you missed this part...

Good effort guys and keeping it civil and comming to terms with this discussion/thread

[dakrazyone]

$20 is a steal, maybe having different pricing scheme and packages for people who do use classified for sales would be nice. I know there are many people who would gladly pay more than $20 to have their stuff advertised.  That's only $1.66/month if you break it down yearly.  I have a paid membership and enjoy meeting new hobbyist through the classified.  Thank you OVAS.

[Stussi613]

The issue wasn't with people selling items on the classifieds without paying for a membership, it was with people blatantly breaking the classified rules and re-posting, bumping and abusing the mods for enforcing the rules.  That's not to say it was only non-members who were doing it - but the majority of the people doing it were non-members.

I brought up the idea of using the Facebook page for non-members to post items for sale, trade, free and looking for and it didn't get a single response so its pretty clear to me (and by that I mean personally, not speaking for the club) that the issues people have with the closing of the classifieds has more to do with the fact that they were removed from the forum than having a place to post items...but I've been wrong before.

[charlie]

The issue wasn't with people selling items on the classifieds without paying for a membership, it was with people blatantly breaking the classified rules and re-posting, bumping and abusing the mods for enforcing the rules.  That's not to say it was only non-members who were doing it - but the majority of the people doing it were non-members.

I brought up the idea of using the Facebook page for non-members to post items for sale, trade, free and looking for and it didn't get a single response so its pretty clear to me (and by that I mean personally, not speaking for the club) that the issues people have with the closing of the classifieds has more to do with the fact that they were removed from the forum than having a place to post items...but I've been wrong before.

I can attest to that personally, when i was moderating the c;assifieds were open, but there was non bumping policy for non members, one such non member bumped his post to which i followed the rules & removed it with a PM to the person explaining why it was removed, the person then went on line bought a membership through the Pay PAl store & immedietly bumped his ad again i removed it - i got an abusing PM from the said member, what the tyrant did not know is when you purches a membership through the Pay Pal the notification goes to the webmaster & it can take days before it filters down to the Mod.That`s the kind of abuse a volunteering mod has to put up with.
Charlie