Loss half of my snowball

[Lithops]

Hi everybody,

I lost half of my snowball shrimp that I bought from a group order. I acclimated them very slowly like it was recommanded. I tested my water : no ammoniac, no nitrite/nitrate, pH 7.4, kH is 107.4 ppm (6 dKH) and GH is 161.1 ppm (10 dKH). I know my hardiness is kind of high, but I read that some poeple did raise them in soft and hard water, so I'm not sure about what to think. I'm using fertilizer ( Flourish ) too, for what I know it's fine. I don't know what else to check and find out why I'm loosing them. Getting frustrating ! It's a good thing I took easy shrimps  Any advise ?

Thanks for your help.
Lithops

[exv152]

I remember you had posted something about having a problem with snails, did you ever end up adding anything to your tank to control the snails?

[Shawn84]

It could be the fertilizer. I have read many bad issues with ppl using it. And snowball is not as hardy as cherry shrimp. Not untill you get f1 or f2 in the tank.

[Stussi613]

I tested my water : no ammoniac, no nitrite/nitrate

Are you sure the tank was cycled?  Shrimp are, in my opinion, more demanding in terms of water quality and if you were reading zero on ammonia, nitrite and nitrate you might have lost them going through a cycle.

[flyingpancake]

Good to see all the responses.....helping out our fellow member.

[Lithops]

Thanks for the come back.

exv152

I have done nothing beside squeezing them when too many of them and let the fishs and shrimps fest on them. I even read they where not that must of problem in the tank, so I learn to be tolerent and my malaysian snail are more of a pest then my ponds snails. If I had room I would think about getting a puffer fish with all the free food I have !

Shawn84

I though that F1 was first generetion and f2, second... I'm not quite familliar with that vocabulary and I have hard time to understand why it's important, why it's make a difference. Anyway I will have to get new snowball when I have the chance and how can I know if they are F1 or F2 ?

Stussi613

My tank is not a year old, but it's cycled. I had a betta, 3 neons and over 15 cherry shrimps in that tank for a lots of months and I moved them to my 65 gallons (Do I have to mention how happy my betta was!). So I could have only snowball shrimps in that tank and the snails.

Flyingpancake

I read about copper and I don't understand why they put copper in shrimps food if it's bad for them. So far all the shrimps foods I did found as copper. And if 0,0001% kill shrimps...they sure don't need a lot. So far I didn't had any problem with Flourish product (I use the one you listed) with my cherry, anamo and rock shrimps...I guess I will have to find a other product to replace that Flourish. Too bad I like it.

On a other note...

After I made my post I cleaned my tanks. Uselly when I clean my snowball tank I unplug my filter and then open the box where the filter is hidden. This time I did open it first and realise that my biowheel was not turning because of the lack of water mouvement from the filter. So I figured that may be it's was because of the new sponge I did put on the filter tips when I bought the snowball, so my babies will be safe. I decided to go back to the old one that was not as compact and the water flow was back to normal. Anyway, made me wonder if because of that sponge, the filter had problem taking the water and end up having not enough oxygen in the water... Would that be a other possibily ?

Thanks again
Lithops

[exv152]

...My tank is not a year old, but it's cycled. I had a betta, 3 neons and over 15 cherry shrimps in that tank for a lots of months and I moved them to my 65 gallons (Do I have to mention how happy my betta was!). So I could have only snowball shrimps in that tank and the snails...

If I were you I would look into why your nitrates are at zero. That is an indication you have little to no nitrifying bacteria - meaning your cycle is not be established. All cycled tanks have some level of nitrates, and the only ones I've seen that have zero nitrates are discus grow-out tanks where the owners do up to 90% water changes per day.  If you left the tank empty for an amount of time the bacteria will begin to disappear because it has no ammonia to feed on. The bio-wheel is of no consequence, all that is is a wet-dry filter that helps oxygenates the water.   That would not kill your shrimp. Neither would the 0.00001% copper in seachem flourish, if your'e dosing per instructions. But zero nitrates is not good news. You should at least have 5ppm up to 10ppm in an established tank.

[Lithops]

I had my water tested at the petshop and they said the water was perfect. So I took for granted that nitrate was at 0. But you are right, when cycled I should see the nitrate as well (I forgot about that one  ). I didn't ask, since they say everything was perfect anyway. As for the biowheel, I do not worry about it, if it's moving or not, it's the fact that my filter was barely filtering the water, so it's had barely any water mouvement to add oxygen to the water. That is what made my wonder. I usely don't use biowheel. Sorry, my english is rusted and sometime I don't find the right words to express myself.

Anyway I will get my water retested I think. Saddly I won't have time before this week-end. But I'm sure it's cycled because I got it cycled before I had all my cherry shrimps and 4 fishs in it and didn't have any problems in that tank, beside the betta eating the babies  And that why I'm so confused about why my snowball dies and if very thing was find before...

[Shawn84]

The whole F1 F2 term is a bit confusing. But in term of shrimp you can look at it like this. The snowball you got in were f1 f2 somewhere else and used to somewhere else water and so on. Once they are in your tank they are new so the shrimplet they produce are consider f1 and the so one. They just become more accustom to your water parameter hence make it more hardy. Hope that help. But as long as you have a male and female left of the snowball don't worry you'll get more in no time.

[wrm130]

Are you sure the tank was cycled?  Shrimp are, in my opinion, more demanding in terms of water quality and if you were reading zero on ammonia, nitrite and nitrate you might have lost them going through a cycle.

Just because a tank tests 0 nitrate doesn't necessarily mean its not cycled.

I agree with the rest though!  Shrimp are great (tho expensive!) canaries

What symptoms, behavior/physical did the shrimp exhibit before dying?(if any)

[Shawn84]

Even a well cycle tank can run into issues when it come to the world of shrimp keeping

[Stussi613]

Just because a tank tests 0 nitrate doesn't necessarily mean its not cycled.

I agree with the rest though!  Shrimp are great (tho expensive!) canaries

What symptoms, behavior/physical did the shrimp exhibit before dying?(if any)

The op didn't initially indicate how long the tank was running, and with all paramaters at zero my first guess was it not being fully cycled. Having kept crystal red shrimp for over a year and getting them to breed in a 6g tank (which many consider challenging to do) I know that shrimp are VERY succeptible to low water quality. If it was my tank, I'd be wondering why the nitrates were at zero and my shrimp were dying.  Hopefully the second test he gets done will show some nitrates and he can confirm that the cycle is established.

[exv152]

Just because a tank tests 0 nitrate doesn't necessarily mean its not cycled.

The term cycle comes from the concept of the "nitrogen" cycle. So a tank with no nitrates is not cycled, and is not equiped to deal with ammonia. But in this case the op made the assumption it was at zero.

[Herstead]

I would wonder at any LFS telling you your water was perfect when they tested it without giving you numbers. Maybe they just took your water out back, tasted it and thought it was OK. 

[Lithops]

Lol I hope not !

I will find out friday, if they do that...next time I reserve them a little tasty suprise 

[wrm130]

did the shrimps show any physical symptoms before dying?

were they active or huddled in a corner?

[Lithops]

They are very quite, hidding in coner, only one big female was more active. Now I have hard time to see them since I only see 3 of time time to time. I'm trying to figure out what changed since I passed from I pass from cherry + fishs to my snowball only tank. The only thing I changed was the sponge at the tip of my filter, witch I changed this week-end because it's wasn't letting enough water pass and I belive it's was reduicing the enough of oxygen in my water. And I added a piece a driftwood that I bought and boilled many time before I added to the tank. I'm pretty sure my tank is cycled, I know that shrimps are more sensitive then fishs and I wouldn't add shrimps in a not cycled tank. But will still get it check again, just in case... I made research on the net, didn't find answer...that why I ask...Getting frustrating to not find why I'm losing them. I hope I will be able to safe the 3 last one...

[robt18]

What temperature is the tank running at? Sometimes when summer rolls around they'll heat up a ways (or for parts of the day if it gets direct sun), and shrimp aren't typically fans of warm water.

[Stussi613]

I would invest in a fresh water test kit and test the water yourself. If you are fully cycled you'll be able to narrow issues like temperature down, if you have too much ammonia, nitrite or nitrate, you can add Prime or do water changes to help reduce the toxins in the tank.  In my opinion having a couple of tanks and not having a test kit means you'll be relying on the store and there are a few too many variables for my liking. Is the store using an expired kit?  Is the person doing the test doing it correctly?  Do they know how to interpret the results? 

Your shrimp not being active is a pretty big indicator that something isn't right, my CRS used to be constantly moving and looking for food. The only time I wouldn't see them is if they were molting, or had just released babies into the tank.

You can get a decent test kit at Big Al's for $40 plus tax, I've had mine for 3+ years now and it's good until 2014.

[sas]

Totally agree with what Stussi613 has stated. Having a test kit on sight gives you the
the ability to test at any time if you suspect a water issues and subsequently the chance to fix things before losing livestock.
When I started I bought a full test kit, but once it expired I just bought the individual tests that I used the most.