African Water Fern (bolbitis) melting

[magnosis]

It took me long enough to locate and acquire some bolbitis
And now it's dying. I have no idea.
The tips started to brown out, and before the leaves turn completely brown the stems are melting.
There are new growths but I'm not sure they'll make it...

Meanwhile, my Hemanthius Cuba & Glosso are doing great. Go figure.
30 ppm CO2
EI dosing
76 F. temp

Could it possibly be a lack of calcium (my softener removes it all)?
Or is this just normal transition phase (planted 2-3 weeks ago)

[angelcraze]

Mine didn't melt, I got some from two different sources.  I know the plant likes harder water, african water fern, so it could be the lack of calcium.  I know it does not require bright lighting, but I have to add coral to my filter to keep the kh and gh up.  Do you have any Equilibrium on hand?

[magnosis]

My KH is between 18-20 and GH usually 4-6.

I don't use Equilibrium. Maybe I should. But then the added Iron will stack with my Traces mix :x

[Stussi613]

I had some in my cichlid tank with crushed coral aragonite substrate and lace rock, it grew about 4x the original size in 4 months with no additives or C02 so I think your water params might not be best suited for it.

[wolfiewill]

I've never had that happen. How much light do you have over it, and is it in direct light or shaded? I set up a friend in North Gower and I don't think he has had any problems with growing plants in softened water. I'll ask him if he has any Bolbitis (I forget if I gave him any). But you and I talked about your set up when you got it, and I don't remember that lighting was going to be an issue!

[wolfiewill]

Oh, you didn't bury the roots did you?

[Stussi613]

Oh, you didn't bury the roots did you?

Oh yeah, you can't bury the roots. Just jam it between some rocks and let it send its own roots where it wants.

[Shawn84]

I have them growing in very hard water and very soft water. I don't have any additive or co2 in my tank.

[magnosis]

No, no I didn't bury the roots   All are tied to driftwood with elastics bands or tie wraps that I'll remove once they get a hold.

Lights are 3x 54W T5HO for 7.5h a day, sitting about 5" above the surface (on a 60g, approx. 48" wide by 15" deep by 18" high).  The tubes are overdue for replacement but I'm not quite ready to blame less-than-optimal color spectrum, I mean... HC and Glosso are growing fast, it can't be that bad.

There was an ammonia spike for a couple days before I did my last WC, most likely due to moving substrate around when I planted (I re-planted the entire tank over the course of 3 weeks). I also lost 5 oto cats in a week due to fungus and only found 2 already half decomposed so that would contribute to the spike.  Ammonia is back to 0 now.

Nitrate was also a bit high, so I've reduced my EI dosage (NO3) by 30%. Will see how it goes this week.

Iron was at 0 when I tested before my WC Sunday. I am dosing traces (mix from B&B) as per the baseline EI dosage, I was expecting ~1.5ppm but didn't even get a reading on my Seachem test (there's no date on it.. do they ever expire?).  I increased trace dosage by 30% this week.

At first I though this was just a transition side-effect. 80% of the ferns came from wolfiewill and were in perfect shape, the other 20% came by mail from aqmagic in empty/sealed bags and were in very good shape (appearance wise) when received. Maybe they had a hard time transitioning from emerged to submerged?

[exv152]

At first I though this was just a transition side-effect. 80% of the ferns came from wolfiewill and were in perfect shape, the other 20% came by mail from aqmagic in empty/sealed bags and were in very good shape (appearance wise) when received. Maybe they had a hard time transitioning from emerged to submerged?

I got a portion from wolfiewill too a while back and it's doing good, but there was a period in which it had to acclimate to its new environment. I think it has less to do with the "ideal parameters" because it can be grown in a wide range of parameters as is evident with the replies here, and it probably has more to do with its acclimation to your parameters. Other plants like crypts tend to melt with transition/acclimation too, but as long as the rhizome is still healthy the plant should bounce back. Also, bolbitus really does well in a high flow area of the tank from my personal experience.

[wolfiewill]

Water column parameters are not important. If your other plants are doing well leave that as is. I've grown Bolbitis at lots of macro levels, and never tried iron at more than Seachem Comprehensive at 0.5 ml/g.

Exv152 may be right about water flow. The stuff you got from me was grown with a lot of water flow. There is a power head and an Ehiem 2215 filter directed at it. Come and I'll give you some more, and place it under the outflow of a hang-on-the-back filter. I used an AquaClear 50s for years that way.

[magnosis]

Thanks for the advice!!!

a) I think I've lost only 1 rizome. Hard to tell because I actually can't see half of them They're well hidden behind wood & other plants and whatnot.

b) I see new growths on some rizome. Yay!

c) Yup, I need more flow. I had posted about this but was request to post pictures to get proper advise. Will follow up on that thread when I get a hold of my wife's camera (took some with my cellphone yesterday but they turned out to be terrible terrible shots lol)

[angelcraze]

My KH is between 18-20 and GH usually 4-6.

Sorry I took so long to get back.  Ok, it's already been established that water parameters don't influence the growth of bolbitis on their own, (maybe it would have to adapt) but your kh is way higher than mine, and gh is the same anyway. 

No, no I didn't bury the roots   All are tied to driftwood with elastics bands or tie wraps that I'll remove once they get a hold...............

...............the other 20% came by mail from aqmagic in empty/sealed bags and were in very good shape (appearance wise) when received. Maybe they had a hard time transitioning from emerged to submerged?

Just a little question, it is best not to tie across the rhizome too tightly, it can cut off the circulation, don't know if you did.  Secondly, I bought some anubias nana from ebay, and they got to me in perfect shape, but required a long time to recover from emersed growth to submerged.  Like months.  In my case, some of the rhizome developed rot.  I cut off any spoiled parts, and it regrew with leaves being about half the size as they originally were when received.  I got narrowleaf java fern from the same source as your bolbitis, and it grew, but very slowly, many leaves had to be cut off.

I would agree with everyone, if your other plants are doing ok, then the bolbitis should be good too since it is not very demanding.  It was probably the source, being shipped from one end of the world to the other than drowned in completely different parameters it was acclimated to.

I would be unhappy too. 

[magnosis]

Thanks for the feedback.

My bolbitis seem to have stabilized now. There are some new growths, so I think this confirms it was simply a transition phase. I lost at least one rhizome, the rest seem to be okay.

I can't say the tank as a whole is doing well though. My bet is that many plants are suffering from calcium & magnesium depravation.  Bad calcium to magnesium ratios (or the lack thereof) seem to be a common cause of green spot algae, which is now severely affecting all of my plants with the exception of HC and Glosso, the fastest growers I have.

I've seen black brush, staghorn, green spot and hair algae make an appearance over the last 2 weeks.  CO2 is pretty stable around 30ppm, and I keep dosing as per EI recommended dosage although I've cut down on Nitrates and bumped up traces (Iron) a bit based on my last measurements.

Seachem Equilibrium might be the answer.
Do you guys know if dosing that will/should affect my trace dosage at all - because both contain Iron, and my trace dose is entirely based on the Iron concentration.  If I cut down on trace, I'm afraid my plants will run out of, well, every trace element except Iron?

[angelcraze]

Whoa, your regimen is way more complex than mine, I don't know about trace, but I assume it would be similar to equilibrium.........all I know is that the guaranteed analysis says calcium is 8.06% and magnesium is 2.41% and thats what I reach for when my anubias and hard water loving plants begin to show signs of not being happy.  I guess I could learn more and dose more regularly.  Sloluable iron is 0.11% if that helps.  Equilibrium says it "restores and maintains mineral balance and GH".

I do not have any c02 set up yet, I have not yet got into that, I am a patient plant grower, but I also see algae of the sorts you mention pop up, and I absolutely LOVE my nerite snails to scrape off that tough green spot algae, the only thing I have found to get rid of this.  As an example I added 3 zebra nerites to a 5g with green spot algae on the leaves of a dwarf sword, and they wiped it clean in 1 day!!!  Although the leaves were already damaged.  It grew back   As long as the snails are there, I see no algae.

[exv152]

...CO2 is pretty stable around 30ppm...

How are you dosing co2, are you using a diffuser/reactor etc? And how are you measuring co2, are you using a drop checker, the kh/ph chart?  

[charlie]

I would suggest before you start worrying about Cal. & Mag. ( which I have doubts is your issue), you start by checking your phosphates ,it`s  not uncommon to increase your phosphates even though your test kit maybe saying you are at your dosing suggestion.
What are your light specs & how long are you running them for? most issues can be controlled by getting your lighting right.
Regards

[magnosis]

@angelcraze:  pressurized CO2, EI dosing & Traces are not that elaborate it's the most basic of high tech setups

4:1 Ca:Mg ratio seems about right. I need to dig up another article I read a while back, some guy was developing another dosing method that I really liked (I think his scientific approach was excellent) and proper Ca:Mg was the first thing to get right, before lights, co2, and anything else.  Will get back on this...

@exv152: Pressurized CO2, currently diffused via ceramic disc placed under the output of a filter.  I use 2 drop checkers on the other side of the tank and they tell me I'm at ~30ppm.

@charlie:
- My last PO4 test was showing none. Because my Nitrates were high and I modified the dosage, I decided to not change other dosage at the same time and check one thing at a time.
- Lights were just replaced last week. 3 Coralias 54W T5HO, 2x FloraSun 5000K and 1x Marine 10,000K (yeah.. that's almost useless but that's all the LFS has in stock)
- You don't seem to be concerned by it, but personally I'm nearly convinced that 0 Ca and 0 Mg is definitely a concern

So yeah, I have to find that article. The combination of green spot algae and lack of Ca & Mg is why I'm so keen on this, because this was the 1st step of his approach: adjust Ca & Mg until you no longer see GSA, then use that dose and start addressing other elements...
-

[exv152]

I've never heard of algae caused by a Ca or Mg defficiency. If you were deficient in these elements your plants would show symptoms instead. Most algae loves inconsistent co2 levels, and low nitrates and phosphates, ime. I would go back to EI dosing and doing large water changes at the end of the week.

[charlie]

Word of advice, test kits are the root of headaches -I follow the school of thought that our hobby test kits are no where near accurate.
This hobby has several approaches to the same result, so I will follow your progress, never too old to learn