African Water Fern (bolbitis) melting

[magnosis]

My last post contained some inaccuracies. Sorry, it's been a while I read this article I mentioned.

Found it:  MCI - Method of Controlled Imbalance, by Christian Rubilar.

The 4:1 ratio Ca:Mg cannot be sucesfully use under water. When there is too much Po4 in the water and you have an imbalance in the Ca:Mg ratio, you will have GDA. In my experience, if you add this macros, the ratio should be the opposite 1:4 Ca:Mg. The inmediate consequence of this idea is that you can't add too much Ca because Mg cannot be added in large amounts.
We can find out how much Ca:Mg we need in the same way I propose to do it with No3 and Po4. However, I sugest you better wait a little more if you are a beginner.

The MG protocol is:

1. First day 50% water change.
2. Stop fertilizing at all.
3. Add 0.3 ppm of Mg daily until the algae ".3. RODOPHYTAS SP. 3" blooms.
4. Then use the specific protocol for this algae you will find at the algae control chapter.

With this simple steps you will know how much Mg you need. About Ca, just add 25% of the Mg.

I'm not saying that bad Ca and Mg dosage will automatically yield algae X Y Z. But as with other elements we're dosing, the lack thereof will slow plant growth and thus indirectly promote algae growth.

I'm not a chemist, nor a biologist, but it seems fair enough that at least *some* Ca and Mg are required for proper plant growth.

And it's pretty interesting to read about 1:4 Ca:Mg ratio whereas most other source will recomment 4:1...

I am not going to say one is right and one is wrong. What I think, is that his approach is sound, and his way to measure it seems fairly solid.  Incrementally adjust each element, and measure via algae blooms.  Sounds like what a lot of the EI folk are doing isn't it? Observe, measure, change, observe again, iterate, ... 

yields to algae (or .. maybe I implied it but anyways, I stand corrected lol) I'm saying that 0 Ca and 0 Mg will eventually yield to

[charlie]

Eric does have a good point, if your Mg & Ca readings are truly 0 , your plants will be exhibiting deficiencies
It is thought that regular water changes will supply enough Ca & Mg, unless your water source is missing them, they are times due to plant mass that they do require supplementing.

Check this out
http://www.rexgrigg.com/Algae1.html

[charlie]

http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/aquarium-plants/12744-deficiency-list-plants.html

[magnosis]

Charlie, yes my plants show deficiencies I can't put my finger on which ones precisely, never been good at that.

My water source is from a softener which almost completely depletes Ca and Mg...
These are my "fresh" water params:

Red is before softener, blue is after softener. Blue goes in my tank.
Source & discussion: http://ovas.ca/forum/index.php?topic=54345.msg305288#msg305288
(all measures in ppm)


 Silver (Ag)      < 0.0003   -->   < 0.0003
* Calcium (Ca)      140.0     -->     2.0    
 Cobalt (Co)      < 0.02     -->   < 0.02  
* Copper (Cu)        0.029   -->     0.31  
 Iron (Fe)        < 0.1     -->   < 0.1    
* Magnesium (Mg)    18.0     -->     0.3    
 Manganese (Mn)    < 0.003   -->   < 0.003  
 Potassium (K)      2.5     -->     0.9    
* Sodium (Na)       71.0     -->   250.0    
 Zinc (Zn)        < 0.005   -->     0.019  
 Arsenic (As)      < 0.001   -->   < 0.001  
 Barium (Ba)        0.21     -->   < 0.02  
 Boron (B)        < 0.05     -->   < 0.05  
 Cadmium (Cd)      < 0.002   -->   < 0.002  
 Chrome (Cr)      < 0.005   -->   < 0.005  
 Lead (Pb)        < 0.001   -->   < 0.001  

 Hardness (GH)   424.0       -->     6.0    (mg/L CaCO3
 Hardness (GH)    23.74      -->     0.36   (dGH)

[charlie]

Charlie, yes my plants show deficiencies I can't put my finger on which ones precisely, never been good at that.

My water source is from a softener which almost completely depletes Ca and Mg...
These are my "fresh" water params:

Red is before softener, blue is after softener. Blue goes in my tank.
Source & discussion: http://ovas.ca/forum/index.php?topic=54345.msg305288#msg305288
(all measures in ppm)


 Silver (Ag)      < 0.0003   -->   < 0.0003
* Calcium (Ca)      140.0     -->     2.0    
 Cobalt (Co)      < 0.02     -->   < 0.02  
* Copper (Cu)        0.029   -->     0.31  
 Iron (Fe)        < 0.1     -->   < 0.1    
* Magnesium (Mg)    18.0     -->     0.3    
 Manganese (Mn)    < 0.003   -->   < 0.003  
 Potassium (K)      2.5     -->     0.9    
* Sodium (Na)       71.0     -->   250.0    
 Zinc (Zn)        < 0.005   -->     0.019  
 Arsenic (As)      < 0.001   -->   < 0.001  
 Barium (Ba)        0.21     -->   < 0.02  
 Boron (B)        < 0.05     -->   < 0.05  
 Cadmium (Cd)      < 0.002   -->   < 0.002  
 Chrome (Cr)      < 0.005   -->   < 0.005  
 Lead (Pb)        < 0.001   -->   < 0.001  

 Hardness (GH)   424.0       -->     6.0    (mg/L CaCO3
 Hardness (GH)    23.74      -->     0.36   (dGH)

Before adding stuff, would it not be better to ID what the deficiency is , so you can adjust accordingly ?
Have you researched the requirement of Mg & Ca for your tank?
As I alluded earlier don`t put all your trust in hobby test kits, they are several variables that can deceive you.

[jetstream]

Water from water softener in theory is not true soft water.  As yourself pointed out in your test result, Sodium level is way too high and above others. Sodium ion blinded with others and gives you a false image of hardness. Do a search and see I'm right or not. Try use water from the bypass and use straight tap city water and see the grow condition able to improve or not. Good luck!

[magnosis]

Before adding stuff, would it not be better to ID what the deficiency is , so you can adjust accordingly ?
Have you researched the requirement of Mg & Ca for your tank?

True. I think my biggest problem now is GSA. It's covering grass, anubias and well pretty much every single plant except HC (not sure why) very fast. Anubias as super slow growers and that often happens with them, but I'm especially concerned about grass. I see new shoots and new leaves on a daily basis but they get covered in GSA pretty fast so it always look like nothing's ever growing (kind of)

As I alluded earlier don`t put all your trust in hobby test kits, they are several variables that can deceive you.

Ahaha yes indeed, you didn't need to tell me this, I absolutely hate test kits.
Last time I spent double and got the Seachem brand. Well I like them even less because the color scale is from white to slightly purple to more purple to even more purple. Impossible to tell unless I get either white or dark purple. Anything in between is completely arbitrary.  I move under a different light, I see different result. I use a bit more water, different results. It's useless.

Still, I have no cheap alternative so I use them from time to time.

The only thing I really trust is the lab on St-Raymond (in hull). It costs around 200$ but they test everything 3 times to get accurate results and use pretty high-end lab equipment.

[exv152]

EI is your best friend. If you follow Tom Barr's advice, meaning dose everything, then remove it, it won't matter what's deficient or in abundance, and you don't need to test anything. Reduce your lighting, and rule out co2 with the ph/kh chart, and just do a large wc once a week. Hope you get to the bottom of this, good luck!

[magnosis]

I'm not quite ready to agree with all of that

ph/kh chart is .. debatable to say the least, and far from accurate at my kh level (18-20) I much prefer using the dual drop checker method even if it's delayed reading.

EI is not a dosage. EI is a method. If your dosage is too low/too high, EI will do nothing against that. At the end of the day you still need to estimate your dosage properly and adjust them. Sorry I don't mean to debate, this is just how I see things.

Anyways this is where I am having (always had) difficulties, is to adjust my dosage.  I'm not good enough at telling from plants whether I dose enough, and EI does not prevent you from overdosing.  If there's an external source of, say, nitrates, you will still overdose nitrates (that is my case, at least until recently, I've halved my nitrate dosage and will see if it improves).

Sorry. I'm always a bit defensive when I hear that EI is all magical and fixes all the problems... not that you said that, but I've heard it before


I could lower my photo period but it's not that high right now. 7 hours if I recall correctly. Not very intense either (2x54W 5000K + 1x54W 10000K) which is ~ 2 watts per gallon of 'useful' light. I'm not sure the 10000K provides anything beneficial for plants.